Literary UPICK || Chapters 7-16

So the "Brightest" sunset was the day no one was lynched (Here)

The next Sunset, in that list, Nautilus was lynched. (Here)

The last date is tricky. It has two rollovers, but only one of them is a day shift.

In the Night Phase (which comes first), AEIOU was killed by the mafia.

In the Day Phase that immediately followed and ended early, No one was Lynched.

Now, if the Night Phase wasn't the sunset, and we go back 23 hours and change, we have the ending of the Day shift in which Mr. Alice was lynched (Here).

Shortly after that phase ended, Chinomi made another sunset post (Here)

Do these sound like descriptions of anyone's novels?

Could she be predicting/prophesying something?

I dunno, duckyduck. It looks pretty damn cryptic. "incomprehensible" and "i don't think they're words" sounds kind of like it could be Codex Seraphinianus. "three tongues reciting knowledge." sounds like it could be my book. "the shield protects me from all weapons." sounds like it could possibly be whatever Tiki's book is. Some people have speculated it's a Warhammer 40k book, I think, which might make the references to "mechanical things" make sense. And House of Leaves is split into two sections, and nautilus died but left a message in rollover later, not to mention the house fiasco involving the thread split.

So, hey, chinomi, when you get back, why do you want to know which sunset is darker?

The last book ALMOST sounds like it could be mine, but mine is complicated so if Chi or whoever wrote those hasn't read it, it could be misinterpreted as such.

Actually, no, I was looking at it wrong. It is definitely my book without any misinterpretation. But I didn't do anything that phase (or the night phase before). Not even vote, since it ended so quickly.

If that's definitely your book, all bets are off on my guesses. They're probably completely wrong. It seems like chinomi knows the first book is town, and one of the other three is mafia?

Five wrote:They're probably completely wrong. It seems like chinomi knows the first book is town, and one of the other three is mafia?

That's my reading as well, but I was going to wait until 10:59 to say it :P

If the first book IS Mr. Alice, it makes sense she is "Brightest" because we know she is Town. Then the "Darkest" would be mafia.

mhhh i think i might know chi's role, but i don't remember the exact name for it. im mostly saying this for brownie points bc i missed out on like three "ahah!!" moments when things i thought were the case were revealed (i called the post eating being the very hungry caterpillar by like the second post eaten, okay, i just didn't say it in thread bc neutral) and i want to at least have a frame of reference for any future "I KNEW IT"s

EDIT: ah, found the name, i was right the first time. it's likely modified like most upick roles are, though, so probably not the classic version. still.

Okay, I'm going to respond to Five's request. I was going to claim next phase, but now kind of works as well. People still seem to suspect me and I'd rather not have town waste actions on me if my claim might prove or help otherwise. I also don't think I'm likely to die prior to claiming, but after claiming I do not know how mafia will handle it (which makes the following post risky?). Some of this information is useful, though, and I think town can take advantage of it.

I'm a bit... indecisive. I could wait like 4.5 hours and post then, but. Eh, why not?

Warning. The following post is going to be exceptionally long. It's long because my role is complex and I have to explain a lot of shit. I included a tl;dr which covers everything useful and the key thoughts. The rest of the post is explaining my thought process, how I worked through the role, and why I arrived at the conclusions that I did.

WARNING: REALLY. REALLY LONG. TL;DR TO SOME EXTENT AT THE BOTTOM.

Hmmm... do I say anything of my role yet? I was planning on full claiming next phase to get town in on the action, and I didn't want to say anything this phase on the off-chance it might cause mafia to kill me before I get these next results. But now you've put me in an awkward situation where if I suggest I'm finally getting the hang of my role, or, conversely, that I still don't care, it might cause town to waste actions on me think I'm mafia, or for me to receive attention from various parties.

Fine. Let's go hard.

So I guess I have a confession.

I actually got some clarification from the hosrs that a previous response was misinterpreted by me, which was at least one third or half of my frustration with using this role. So this means I've actively been using and analyzing my role for a few days now, and that while the frustration I spoke of was real (I actually did put my face in my hands and cry over this role--that wasn't exaggeration), I kind of hammed it up with the hope that it'd make mafia think I just was sitting here not doing anything in the event I started using it again.

Which I did starting N4.

Hard Claim - My Role and Book

You know how earlier Five mentioned she got a few results on me? "She likes to ask questions."? My role is literally that. I can ask questions. Any question. But there's one problem... I have to interpret/decode the answers.

My book is His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman. I have in my possession one alethiometer, or otherwise essentially a "truth meter". For those not familiar with the series, the alethiometer does not directly provide answers, but rather leaves them up to interpretation. There are 36 symbols, which you can see on the page I linked. Each symbol has multiple meanings, but typically only 3-4 are used (I'll get back to this). To use the alethiometer, you ask it a question, and it returns a sequence of symbols from which you are to interpret. You essentially fill in the grammar and context of the sentence through trying to glean how the alethiometer responds to your request.

My role is exactly this. I ask a question, and the hosts respond with a series of symbols. The frustration came from the fact that all of my early questions seeking to understand how to parse these answers was met with "OvO" faces, which made my job very, very difficult. I was not told which list of meanings was being used (mostly every list is the same, but there are some small variations here and there), or if the hosts had their own meanings/interpretations, implied or otherwise. I also was not told if my questions could fail and return no result, making me very anxious about asking a bogus question. Most importantly, however, I misunderstood one hosr response...

There's one final trick to reading the alethiometer in the books. When symbols are presented, if the same symbol is repeated multiple times in succession, that means you are to go down the list of meanings to the proper meaning according to the number of symbols in question. So for example, the Candle represents "Meaning, Understanding, Learning" in that order. If you received a Candle by itself, that means "meaning". If you see three in a row, that means "Learning".

With me so far?

The problem came when I asked if the hosts were using this system. The answer I got was that "if three symbols are in a row then that is always going to be three in a row and not 1+2".

I mistook this statement to mean each one was on its own, in that each symbol had to be interpreted individually. I also had reason to believe this due to how my PM was worded and used symbols. This... led to immense frustration trying to parse the answers. However, I went back and asked days later and got the clarification of "if x symbols are in a row, they are read as a unit rather than split up."

Okay, wow, this changed everything. Along the way I got more clarifications, making my list:


1. The hosrs were cross-referencing with about 4-5 different dictionaries to make sure no meanings would conflict.

2. Dictionaries going down to 14 meanings or some other number weren't trusted/used.

3. Answers were phrased in a way where hourglass(2) and hourglass(3) were not placed next to each other so I could determine the boundaries.

4. X symbols in a row are read as a unit rather than split up.

5. If hourglass(1) and hourglass(2) have to be used next to each other, there would be some marker like a "..." to distinguish the boundary.

6. The hosrs seek to answer exactly what is asked in the question.

For my own personal analysis, I presumed asking about numbers and player names would not work well at all. They're too variable and open to interpretation. I wasn't sure if I could ask "yes/no" or "mafia/town" questions, since I wasn't sure if those meanings could be created with symbols. I later found out this was possible, both by the hosts and by my own speculation. I will come back to this later.

Still with me? Okay, okay, I know you want to know what I asked. I'll give you the answers in full and then walk through how I've been reading them.

On N0, I asked the following:

Question: I ask my alethiometer what roles all of the members of mafia have in their possession.

Answer: Owl + Helmet, Helmet + Hourglass, Hourglass + Owl + Angel + Helmet, Helmet + Serpent, Serpent + Hourglass, Hourglass, Hourglass + Moon, Moon + Walled Garden, Walled Garden, Walled Garden + Bread + Tree + Dolphin, Dolphin + Griffin, Griffin + Bread + Hourglass, Hourglass, Hourglass + Candle, Candle, Candle

Meanings: Night + Protection + Death + Night + Messenger + Protection + Guile + Change + Mystery + Order + Nourishment + Firmness + Resurrection + Watchfulness + Nourishment + Change + Learning

On N1, I asked the following:

Question: I ask my alethiometer to tell me all night actions performed by the mafia.

Answer: Helmet, Helmet + Marionette, Marionette + Bread + Helmet, Helmet + Marionette, Marionette + Hourglass, Hourglass

Meanings: Protection + Submission + Nourishment + Protection + Submission + Death

(hosrs later clarified these were only for N1, whereas I was hoping the "all night actions" would include N0 as well):


On N2, I was going to ask:

I ask my alethiometer: "Of the four currently split threads, what are the roles of the players assigned to the thread that has the most mafia in it?"

It was at this point that I kind of had an emotional breakdown for reasons that are not appropriate to get into. Merely know that I was entered into the impression that I was failing my role and not using it properly, which caused immense frustration considering I didn't have any idea how to utilize it. At this point you'll notice a pattern in what I was going for. I will explain my goals after the remaining questions and answers.

Anyway, I retracted my N2 question and didn't ask one on N3. I was too stressed out and it was taking me out of the game. I was spending so much time trying to figure out how to read my answers, plus figure out what were good questions, that by the time I got into thread I had spent hours on the game without actually developing reads on players. I started playing as vanilla to let my mind rest. I explained part of this in thread.

When the timeline shift happened due to deo's role, I submitted two questions for the heck of it so I could test the timelines.

On N4, I asked the following:

Question: Timeline 1
I ask my alethiometer: "Is Mitsu a dead town, a dead mafia, an alive town, or an alive mafia?"

Timeline 2
I ask my alethiometer: "How many mafia voted for Blaire to be lynched?"

Answer: Alpha & Omega + Walled Garden, Walled Garden

Meanings: Finality + Innocence

On N5, I asked the following:

Question: I ask my alethiometer: Was plotstickers shot by a gun from either alignment during the last day phase?

Answer: Serpent, Serpent

Meaning: Guile

Note: This was poorly worded. I will get back to this later. I sent it in a few minutes before rollover. My previous question was, "What is T3tsuya's true alignment?" before I decided the utility of a question asker is that I can test anything in the thread. So I tried to, but botched the wording.

On N6, I didn't submit a question in time. We are now on N7.

My Analysis, Interpretations, Thoughts, and Approach

Okay. Let me explain my train of thought. N0, it was expressed that my role had high potential to be OP since it can ask anything at all. I thought to myself what was the strongest thing I can do with my role? Alignments and roles are the cornerstone mechanics of mafia. I then decided I would spend multiple night phases tying roles and alignments into each question. In this way, I would rely on the anchors of stuns and jails repeatedly showing up to cross-reference my results against one another. In addition, I would always have an idea of what alignment was doing what. This was also influenced by my then understanding that I would not be told how to read results, that I might not get any results if worded too specifically, that I couldn't ask compound questions, that asking of numbers and player names would be too hard, and so on and so forth. N0 before anything in the game could happen, I asked every role belonging to mafia.

Let's return to that.

N0 Results wrote:Owl + Helmet, Helmet + Hourglass, Hourglass + Owl + Angel + Helmet, Helmet + Serpent, Serpent + Hourglass, Hourglass, Hourglass + Moon, Moon + Walled Garden, Walled Garden, Walled Garden + Bread + Tree + Dolphin, Dolphin + Griffin, Griffin + Bread + Hourglass, Hourglass, Hourglass + Candle, Candle, Candle

If you parse it using the systems I've previously described, you literally get:

Night + Protection + Death + Night + Messenger + Protection + Guile + Change + Mystery + Order + Nourishment + Firmness + Resurrection + Watchfulness + Nourishment + Change + Learning

I did this D1 before I thought to ask if the system was being used (it was), so right off the bat I was alarmed by seeing "protection" twice and "resurrection" once. That seemed weird and made me question the results. I have since figured it out, I think. One final thing to note: The hosrs would not confirm that all roles listed in the above are done in sequential order. For example, if a mafia has a stun and a role cop, it wasn't specified if they would be broken up into two parts of the answer or if they'd be kept together.

However, I have reason to believe they probably were kept together. Notice something?

"Nourishment + Firmness + Resurrection"

This is, I think, plotstickers role. I think it is read as "Consume posts (nourishment) to build a cocoon that makes you killproof (firmness), which will allow you to revive as a butterfly (resurrection)."

Going down the list, I believe "Night + Protection" to be "Jailer", for reasons you'll see in my N1 results. I believe "Death" is merely a vigilante kill effect, the likes of which I believe we saw on N6 when eleni and lulu were killed. Here's where it gets juicy.

"Night + Messenger + Protection" are together, I think. I believe there is a role that visits someone each night, messages them, and receives protection by having either effects on them get redirected to the target, or something similar. Messenger can also mean the ability to send messages to the thread (like an intermission or rollover text alteration?). The only two messengers I can think of in the game that we know of are Ardonye and Rasei.

The next ones I'm not sure how to read. "Guile + Change + Mystery + Order." I'll get back to these in a moment.

Then we have "Nourishment + Firmness + Resurrection." plotstickers, I'm 99% sure.

"Watchfulness + Nourishment + Change + Learning." This one is interesting. I think it's pretty safe to say that Watchfulness can be something similar to a watcher role or at least a role that latches onto a player each night. I think Nourishment in this case refers to adding something to the player, which would work with Change to mean role copier, I think. Learning and/or Watchfulness are either part of this role or separate, suggesting a role cop.


This returns us to "Guile + Change + Mystery + Order." It's clear that mafia have a phase end, which would be used with Change, I think. There are two changes in the list, but given alca's theory that mafia copied a role, I am inclined to think the other instance of change is a role copier and that this one is the phase end. I'm guessing Order is either a stun role or a vote manipulation role. Since I think we know there's a stunner, it's probably that, unless the stunner is tied to one of the other visitor, watcher, or role cop roles.

I feel like Guile is obviously going to be deceitful, like a miller or tailor. Guile + Change could be tailor, but given the analysis of the two Changes, that'd mean there's only a phase ender and no role copy. I'm more inclined to think Guile is either a miller or something that can twist the intermission / rollover / night results, especially since angelstar died right before a second kill on the following night, suggesting, as alca says, role copy and vigilante kill.

Mystery is throwing me off. It might fit something like Mitsu's role, but it could be something else like a bus driver or redirect. I also feel like it makes sense for mafia to have some form of day time voting role, but that's just me. All in all, those four are the meanings I'm the least sure of. If they're sequential, then broken down we're looking at:

1. Night + Protection = Jailer; Death = Vigilante
2. Night + Messenger + Protection = Visit someone, message them, receive protection and/or redirect to them?
3. Nourishment + Firmness + Resurrection = plotstickers
4. Nourishment + Change + Learning = Role Copier, and/or role cop
5 and 6 are some combination of watcher, phase ender, and probably a miller or bus driver.

Moving on, all night actions performed by mafia on N1.

Helmet, Helmet + Marionette, Marionette + Bread + Helmet, Helmet + Marionette, Marionette + Hourglass, Hourglass

Parsed:

Protection + Submission + Nourishment + Protection + Submission + Death

First off, I worded this question to exclude day actions since I wasn't sure if the hosrs would include votes as an "action" (in hindsight, "role actions" would preclude it. Listen, I was struggling). I'm not sure if plot's post consumption was every phase, day phase, or night phase. So this said... the first thing that stands out is the Marionettes. They are... obviously not in the previous list, which really screwed with me, but I think I understand it now. I was also confused since I thought originally this covered N0 and N1, and the list of actions seemed too small. As previously said, these only returned N1 results. Anyway.

The previous list of roles works off of flavor and literal explanation, whereas the second list of results probably just directly explains what were the actual mechanical roles that happened. Thus, I believe "Protection + Submission" would be jailer, while the other submission would just be "stun".  I think the second Protection is either part of whatever role it is that protects itself each night (by visiting people??), or it's combined with Nourishment to suggest that you gain something from other players and in the process are safe. That said, it's... probable that Nourishment might belong to plotstickers eating posts? Alternatively, Nourishment might literally refer to learning of roles, but I think some variant of Candle for "Learning" would be used there. There's no mention of a message, so I don't know what to make of that with regards to my theory of the Night + Messenger + Protection role. It's possible the message might not be intentionally sent, thus it's just a consequence of their actions, whereas I asked specifically what actions were performed.

For N4, we have...

Alpha & Omega + Walled Garden, Walled Garden

Parsed:

Finality + Innocence

This one is tricky because I abandoned my previous intentions of asking about roles/alignments. I actually spent a lot of time musing over this one. The big question: How would the hosrs choose to answer this question?

The question specifically asks for "how many mafia voted for Blaire." The arrangements are thus: 3T, 2T1M, 1T2M, and 3M.

The symbols do not lend themselves well to numerical counts, beyond literally just showing the symbols n number of times. There are ways around this, which is what I believe was done. For instance, if it were 3T or 3M, the answer could merely elect to suggest that only one alignment voted for Blaire. If I go back to the previous clarifications in which each question is answered as exactly as possible, the hosrs wouldn't respond with "town voted for Blaire" instead of "no mafia voted for Blaire", right? Hmm...

How I'd write certain one-word answers:

What stands out to me is that in both "no" and "mafia" you never see Walled Garden as per how I personally think they might be written. This is kind of influenced by the result I got on N5, which I'll get to soon.

There is the possibility that multiple meanings + symbols might combine to convey an alignment. I have no way of knowing if this is the case at the current time. However, if I try to add context I can see:

1. "The final vote tally on Blaire was only town."
- Finality for "final vote tally"
2. "In the alpha thread, there were only town."
- Alpha & Omega for "alpha thread"
3. "The alpha votes on Blaire were town."
- Likewise
4. "The only votes on Blaire were town."
- Finality to suggest "only"
5. "The lynch was by town."
- Finality as in "the end", a way to distinguish lynch from kill, which would be "death" from hourglass.

The recurring theme is that I'm only seeing town from "innocent" since I can't read it any other way that makes sense. Some of these interpretations step outside of the "only exactly answering the question", as I assumed and was confirmed. Arguably, however, saying "Only town voted for Blaire" achieves the same thing as saying "No mafia voted for Blaire." There is a chance for...

6. "No one to vote on Blaire was town."
- Finality for "no one."

But... the question I asked on N5 was clarified by hosr to be read as a "Yes/no" question and was answered in turn.

I asked:

I ask my alethiometer: Was plotstickers shot by a gun from either alignment during the last day phase?

Answer was:

Serpent, Serpent

Guile

I can't see this meaning "yes" given my own interpretations.

A. "No."
B. "The message was not real."
C. "Mafia shot plotstickers."

I don't think "C" as being likely given previous statements/clarifications on my role. Serpents/Guile do not directly translate to "no", but if you view it as...

Q. Do you have a key in your pocket?
A. No, it is not what you think it is.

versus

Q. Do you have a key in your pocket?
A. Yes, it is as you believe to be true.

Then I think Serpent, Serpent can mean Guile for "no" and that Sun, Sun, Sun is probably Truth for "yes". Arguably, "no" is still truthful. I think it is the embellishment and grammar that adds context and definition.

Either way, I do not see Serpent, Serpent as meaning "yes", which means my previous answer did not literally say "No town" as in "no town voted on Blaire to be lynched." So why would the result only mention town instead of mafia?

I think it's because of the previously stated reason in which the answers are purposefully written so as to not have repeat symbols without a boundary between them, so as to make the meanings clear. In this case, literally saying "No mafia", if mafia is written as "Serpent" for "Evil", which would be the inverse of "Innocent" for town...

Serpent + Serpent, Serpent
No + Mafia

Whereas you can achieve the same meaning by just saying "the vote only had town", using whatever interpretation you want of "finality". This dodges the complicated nature and leads to the implication of "Only town voted for Blaire / No mafia voted for Blaire."

I don't think Alpha & Omega is literally translated to Alpha Thread. That's probably coincidence, whether helpful or confounding convenience or otherwise. I think it more likely to mean vote tally, lynch, or "only". This is not to mention that the symbol/meaning count seems inadequate for a complex or multi-faceted answer. So...

I think the three people to vote on Blaire to be lynched in the alpha thread were all town.

Lastly, to get back to the plotstickers question... This is why I kind of said I was 99% sure it was a fake message. I got pretty confused, and then I realized my wording was funky as hell. I asked how the hosr would interpret it and hosr replied saying more or less that my wording would cover any instantaneous vigilante kill. In other words, not a delayed kill, as alcasync suggested.

This is getting really goddamn long at this point, and I can still keep rambling about my interpretations and my like 10-15 documents I have regarding this role. I'm going to try and make this post as easy to read as possible, but... as short as I can manage:

TOO LUX; DIDN'T READ:

I am a question asker. I am His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman. I have an alethiometer. I can ask it questions and receive a response comprised of up to 36 symbols that have multiple meanings. Meanings are clarified by consecutive repeats of the same symbol. I have turned up the following results and interpretations:

Rules of the Role:

N0 Question / Answer:

N1 Question / Answer:

N4 Question / Answer:

N5 Question / Answer:

I skipped N2 and N3 due to personal frustration, emotions, and mental breakdown.

There.

This is all I have. I hope it is of use to somebody.

Things to consider: I am working on reviewing all claims and my interpretation of events and role actions each night to see how they tie in to the results we've seen, as well as how they compare to the known mafia roles I listed above. One thing that stands out is that mafia did not bus or redirect, as far as I can tell, on N1, suggesting it works every other phase.

Lastly: Was it wrong to hard claim at this point? Possibly. I could in theory wait 4.5 more hours for rollover. Maybe I'll get killed or something. I do not know. I think it is in town's best advantage to know this information asap. I debated showing all the roles sooner, when we might've been able to better prepare for them, but I also didn't want mafia to knock me out before I could get more information. Plus I didn't know how to read the roles then as I believe I do now.

I... am not altogether pleased with some of the questions and wording I've used, but I did the best I could given my frustrations and problems with using the role. I will also note that this role is heavily reliant on interpretation... which is why I included my process. I think I have a good read on the results, but I guess others may disagree? Idk. I just. I tried. ;w;

Whoa, a Luxxxiepost! I'm going to... digest that. But I have to do something beforehand.

Okay, if I don't write my thoughts down, I'm gonna lose 'em. I'll just respond to what I see, when I see it.

"Night + Messenger + Protection" makes me think of when I tried to target Sammiya for information and got no result at all.

I'm just. So impressed with this game. It's so complex and the hosrs are so so committed I'm so in awe

ty we are the hosr we like compliment