Cardcaptor Sakura Mafia [Day Four]

Aeiou wrote:omg so
host forgot to tell me lulu acted so
that list is pretty useless??? imo??
we already knew all those people acted so NK sender must be obscured

And Cure I was just listing you as someone who acted, sry I was going to go through later and see what I thought of the list, I was just getting it out

but now
sorta useless lmao
also host said I'd still see NK sender so yeah... poop

..... I DIdnT REALIZE THIS WAS A ROLE CLAIM. I DIDn'T REALIZE YOU WERE CLAIMING TRACKERWATCHERTHING


I"m ON TOP /AGAIN/

Hey all.

Glad to jump in. Been out all day, but getting up to speed.

Vote: lulu im gonna be busier than expected and im also really sick and feel like gross please send help and meds

sorry ive been relatively quiet, I have come down with some sort of sinus infection or something (like usual uhuhu)

i'll be at work until after rollover but i'm not sure who to vote for yet :[ i'm goign to keep checking back on my breaks and maybe decide something

I woke up and this isn't resolved but I had a dream about the game. Unlike previous mafia related dreams I didn't have some weird prophetic dream about who the identities of the remaining 3 mafia were sorry.

So, we have four claimed roleblockers in this game: Cure, lulu, Tiki the Troll, and Five. There is absolutely no way in hell all of them are the same alignment. No.

Cure

• If she were mafia, that's a pretty gutsy claim to claim n0 that the town jailer jailed you n0 if there exists a secondary town jailer. She's also been pretty obvious with her actions and hasn't necessarily been making the most advantageous jails as mafia (jailing herself & jailing me). I am willing to strongly assume she is Dedicated Town Jailer.
  

Tiki the Troll

• I refuse to believe he was town for my sake, because he basically did everything town normally should not do. I know it's kind of like "what mafia would actually let him get away with all the shit he did" but even if he was town, that means we have a bulletproof every other night stunner, which by virtue of the bulletproof appears more immediately powerful than Raie (regular town jailer) and Five (regular town stunner). It doesn't make sense to slot a more overpowered role in comparison to the other roles that exist in this game, but I suppose he could've been framed ...
  
• Furthermore, having a mafia bulletproof would explain why my kill can blast through bulletproofs, since it makes sense that if mafia has a bulletproof a town role can break it so that town doesn't waste phases lynching them. Goddamnit, my role.
  
• Like, at least he was psuedo-confirmed able to stun because he claimed to stun Bromigo but no one cc'd him?????
  

Five

• Not going to lie, before the claims got dropped like hot potatoes on D2 I kind of wondered if Five and Tiki were mafia together and bussing each other.
  
• The whole role thing is really weird, but makes sense if Tiki is mafia (given that Tiki was mafia) (Tiki was mafia). I guess the things working against Five right now is lulu's existence, plus the fact that Five's stun targets include an alignment cop (of which she didn't know about though so it's okay) and Sammiya, who... died under weird circumstances. Actually, I thought of a theory about why Sammiya died but it's such a worst timeline-esque theory that I don't even want to publicly float it.
  
• If Lucas role cop'd Plot, then I can't see why mafia stunner and mafia role cop would concentrate their abilities on one player who tends to be habitually mislynched in games when they're town?
  
• I'm curious to hear what Five thinks about lulu... where is five, anyways, I feel like the last I heard from her was about the item?
  

lulu

• I feel like if lulu were mafia and genuinely maf jailer she wouldn't just straight up claim the fact that she acted on someone and did the jailing thing, but I think in GS2 she was pretty open about claiming her role when things got intense near the end... I'm not sure, @Cure/Lux might be able to handle this better.
  
• If Adios is the jailer that at least explains the very strange jail on Mr. Alice, but from a mafia perspective I can't imagine why mafia would jail Mr. Alice unless they're scared of her fucking up the mafia unintentionally (true), it was a ploy to make her seem like town (hard to pull off if you can't identify which of the jails is malicious or if there's a solo jailer), or they want to throw off the town strategy of looking at the targets to identify the alignment of the jails.
  

The most equal distribution of role abilities in this game would be one stun/jail per side, but given Five's claims that there were no dedicated stunners at gamestart, what the heck.

I'm going to withhold my vote until later in the phase because I want more people to discuss this... situation, erm.

NO!!!

welp i guess mafia also has a day vigilante and it's the through, let me update my giant mass-claims list

i'll probably use the item today and ◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙  kill, so.

Summary of Game Claims:

mafia has so many ways to kill people and yet i'm apparently the only town vig jfc

@Aeiou - I have a question I'd like to ask you uhm but idk how to go about it :(a

Okay, so, um.

Okay. Okay.

I'm taking Aeiou's watcher claim with a grain of salt for what it's worth: while the reaction (aka what I was ?!?!?!?!ing Aeiou about) seems genuine

Aeiou wrote:WAIt
wait a fucking second

the issue I have is that for the most part every action on Aeiou's list had already been hinted at to some degree during the phase or the phases before: Angel had mentioned having an intent to lie detect, Raie had toed the line in hardclaiming jailer, Rasei was undoubtedly going to act, etc., So it's possible Aeiou could be lying about their role, though obviously I can't say this for sure.

I'm admittedly very curious about the nature of the obscured action, since if it is the NK it doesn't make sense for Aeiou to see the NK and yet be unable to actually see its sender's name (unless the NK sender is one of the other five people Aeiou saw act); if that's the case it should just be omitted just like ... Aeiou's other role.

It's possible it could be like Ardonye's role in Lit Maf 2 where she took me to the bank and made me undetectable/unaffected by any kind of action except for I guess dinosaur dokis, in which another mafia role has the capacity to obscure another player.

My question was basically: Aeiou, are you capable of seeing actions that were attempted but did not go through? I find it curious that Five doesn't appear on your list at all, since I think ezz's version of your role in Lit Maf 2 allowed us to see people who had been stunned/blocked out of acting, and Raie shows up despite having jailed herself (though that may have been an exceptional case).

Hi, I am awake now. First, RIP Cure. This just got a lot more difficult. Also what the hell these killing effects.

nautilus wrote:mafia has so many ways to kill people and yet i'm apparently the only town vig jfc

Yeah... remember the previous mini-discussion regarding this? So there's now the rollover vigilante kill and also, apparently, the instant vigilante kill on the side of mafia. This just seems so weird when our main protection seems to be Cure jailing people (and possibly a doctor if that's what saved you N0), and now she's dead. Were it not for the fact that lulu was FoSing Five instead of Cure, I'd almost expect lulu to just come in here and say she pulled out a vigilante shot and killed Cure for doubting her being the second jail. Though that'd give immediate GKS2 vibes.

So naturally, I am curious as to what the restrictions were on this mafia kill. I'm guessing it was one-shot or we would've seen it sooner, so they could keep making new ones and using it over and over (again like GKS2). Them using it on Cure is interesting to me since Five had publicly outed herself as town stunner sooner, but then again town stunner isn't necessarily as problematic for mafia compared to what Cure's been doing, especially if Cure can render herself immortal with jailing effects (possibly; she might have had a restriction like not being able to put it on the same target two nights in a row). Mafia also not using items or shots on Mitsu is weird unless they feel completely unthreatened by vigilante claims, but on top of this you have an item now so you would theoretically have 2x the kill power.

Cure flipping 100% town makes the situation between lulu and Five even more confusing, since now we have irrefutable proof of one jail being town, but the other has jailed the believed town stunner and claimed it as a town pseudo-jailing role, and the purported town stunner has stunned some awkward town targets, whether through bad luck or otherwise. What a mess.

Also, I forget exactly what Lucas said N0, but is it possible he might've lied about checking plotstickers for the sake of attempting to WIFOM the town and also make town less suspicious of the stun? As in, mafia stunning and role detecting one target is, as you've pointed out, fishy. But if Lucas lies about the target... that stun might look more maf-leaning. This said, I view a stun on plot as inherently town-leaning due to target selection and also how Five approached the situation. But then now lulu's claimed jail N0 was on Blaire, who also fits feeling more town-aligned since the only way it makes sense as mafia is if you're jailing your own--except lulu is also FoSing Blaire, iirc? So then that. Makes no sense. And Cure has flipped town jail.

fff.

I'm going to re-read some things. Also might be watching something soon, so I may not be back for a few hours.

Edit: Reading what you said.
Edit2: Quick comment, Aeiou's claim is hard for me to parse since it's like Duck's in Litmaf2. When every role/actor you're claiming got through has publicly outed it in thread previously, it's hard to really evaluate the information because in theory anyone could say it. I agree her reaction does seem genuine to some degree.

One other thought. This is incredibly impossible to actually prove or discuss, but I had a thought. "The Through". I don't know the anime, but the name feels very thematically similar to some others that are claimed to be in the game, like Change and Return, which gives me a weird thought as to whether or not it might've been someone's 2nd - 4th pick if they didn't get some of the other choices that were apparently more popular.

Yeah, no, I agree: we've confirmed now that there are at least four types of vigilante kills in this game:

1) Whatever killed Sammiya/Kiyoko
2) The "item" vigilante who killed Plot, whom I now have a copy of their ability
3) Whatever killed Raie
4) Myself, who killed Lucas

All of these vigilante kills have distinctively different flavour, too: whatever killed on N2 has generic kill flavour, the "item" vigilante who killed Plot is very clearly denoted by an item, whatever killed Raie passed through her which is kind of gross when I think about it, and my kill is shown as a volley of arrows.

I do think that the Plot kill and the Raie kill are definitely mafia because I can't reconcile with that selection of targets, especially since both of them were uncontested town power roles, but I feel like the mafia day kill (not the item one) has equal restrictions to my kills; otherwise it'd be too overpowered compared to mine if they could use them without restriction and in quick succession.

I agree it seems really weird for mafia to kill Raie over me, but I feel like part of the reasoning may be because her role is immediately more dangerous to mafia in the night phases, and while I do have 2x the kill power there's always the chance that I could hit town and help mafia whittle down numbers faster. :x

re: Lucas - this is specifically what he said:

I acted on Plot (not responsible for the stun tho) and, therefore, I know what her role ability is. I don't know her card or her alignment, but making the assumptions isn't that hard. I'm very positive that she is town.

I'M HERE what did I miss

...

wtf something passed through Cure. That sounds painful. :[ rip

@nautilus hmm The Through isn't a popular card, I think, as it wasn't even shown in the anime? Tho I could be misremembering

Regarding vowels, I've been wanting to say that those things in her results were already out there anyway, so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to lie about the actions... But still. Idk. ??

That is... rather clever wording from Lucas.

It's completely ambiguous as to whether or not he actually truthfully knows anything of her role. chinomi's claims suggests Lucas had to have been some form of role detection, but Lucas' claim on checking plot doesn't immediately put him in a position where his information is false. He just says, "She is definitely town," which he knows as mafia.

Okay, here is how I could see lulu being town: Five would have stunned plot as she claimed, and Lucas actually investigated another target and then said he checked plot, instead, to make Five's stun on plot look more town by virture of two mafia actions being on the same target not making as much sense. This is very risky for Lucas, though. If plot asked him to describe her role, he has to do it or he's dead maf.

That said, mafia did immediately kill plot the first chance they had. Meaning either they believed her claim in thread (which they arguably had no proof of), or they had actually investigated her and knew immediately that she was the cop claim. The possible attempted mislynch fits into all of this (re: putting focus onto plot and trying to get votes on her), and in this case Five's actions would make more sense as mafia. But. Her actions also make complete sense as a town stunner that may have found the mafia that failed the NK.

Also, both she and Lucas purportedly asked the host about how the actions would show up in rollover in the event of jails and stuns (jfc I almost said juns and sails). This does not preclude the mafia, as a collective or individual, asking the host about this while one of them, Lucas, posted in thread. Lucas could post in thread to look more knowledgeable, but then why would Five answer it in thread? I won't delve into the WIFOM of how players might structure conversations in thread, so.

Bear in mind, I still believe Five is probably the town stunner. I'm just trying to evaluate any possible way that lulu's statements come from a town, because the entirety of lulu's claim just feels like something you Do Not Do as mafia. If mafia let Tiki run rampant, there's no way they also just let lulu show up and post all of that incorrect information that can blow up in her face. Right? Or is this WIFOM? There's too much wine and I don't even drink alcohol at all.

There's always the alternative we keep coming back to: Somehow, there's skewed controlling effects. Which actually might make a lot of sense now that we see mafia has their grandfather's WW2 arsenal at their disposal.

Unrelated, Five didn't claim her card, right? Because this makes me really curious how the flavor of her choice could've originally been a pseudo-silence, but now it's a stunner instead. That might be another clue to go off of? She's already claimed her role and this could help vet her information and claims, especially if she can describe how the flavor was written for the first role and then the second in relation to her card.

Edit: Also, did you catch my edit in my last post?

Yes, but I think Gerry responded to it with what I would've! Ummm.

re: Lucas - I understand that's ambiguous wording from him, but at the same time if Plot ever asked him to describe the role, he'd be really fucked; he implies from that statement that there's very little ambiguity about what role she is in terms of possible alignment, and it'd be difficult for him to bluff (though Plot's alignment was also questioned at the time, I suppose). In retrospect maybe I should have left Lucas alive to suffer a bit more and for Plot to probe him, but I also didn't want the phase to devolve into everyone dogpiling Lucas (also: trophies).

It's kind of why I hope if there's a mortician in this game that can see who's acted on the dead that they act on Plot, primarily to determine with accuracy that Lucas acted on her.

Five has not claimed her original card, no, but her claims suggest that she was actually The Loop and the the card itself got changed along with her role.

@Raie - WHY ARE ALL MY FRIENDS DEAD IN THIS GAME

inb4 ezz is maf and that's the only reason why she's not a dead friend of mine

unrelated to mafia: i got miitomo. i have no idea how this app works, though.