distortion [D4-N6]

...

i'm
having a really tough time at work so i'm not sure if i'll be able to vote super well this phase but if i get some down time tonight (which probs won't happen) i'll try and catch up on thread a little better but wow i'm getting like 0 gut reads this game like if there are mafia out there, ya'll are doin a spectacular job

just gonna put a Vote: No Vote for activity purposes, but i'd really like to actually vote someone later on if i can

u r a mystery katze

anyway

when i was put up for the lynch i kinda accepted it because my role really IS anti-town, AND there was no NK when I was stunned so i was like yo lynch me, i'm at peace with that, but please don't think it's over when i show up as maf because that's literally what i've been warning about since night 0. but people were still like. oh. he's totally maf. and i was just like wow ok really.

also i'm not specifically gunning for She-Ra myself??? why is that suddenly on me. i mentioned not trusting the mayor because of the conspiracy against my character. that's nothing conclusive. :V it's just highly likely that someone in a position of authority has been covering up for the murders or something.

Five wrote:How many people in this town do you guys think died before the game started?

I've actually been wondering about this today due to the flavor in my current location. It seems like whatever is happening didn't only start when the game did.

Right now, I'd be primarily willing to lynch anyone who hasn't been sending messages, sharing info and exploring. Chances are mafia are among those people, at least some of them, and worst case we will remove an unproductive townie. So my list would be something like: tiki < blaire < chinomi < plot = gerry = deo. (in ascending order of willingness to vote for.) I'm not particularly against a lynch on she-ra either, she's kinda in the I'm-not-really-sure area for me atm. I definitely do not want to scatter the votes further, though. (Hopefully I haven't missed someone being helpful or someone not being helpful... going by feeling rn, no time to go through everyone's posts to check. I'm planning to do some skimming through tomorrow if I'll have the time, though.)

I'm gonna place a vote: she-ra because t3t brings a good point that her flip likely gives us the most information to work with. I'm gonna keep watching the thread if she comes back and elaborates on the rude-not rude np and what kind of a difference that made, but I wanted to leave a vote in case I end up going to bed before that happens :V

Okay. Here now.

So, there was something that bothered me on D1. I let it ride out, to see if the suspicion was justified, and, eh, the way the thread went made me feel okay not pressing it. Then this phase happened. Alarm bells went off, and it would have been irresponsible to ignore them. So, I did what I started to do on D1: dug into the Cry Wolf archives, and yeah. Now that I've done that (then took a bit of a rest after, having gotten a headache), I feel my suspicions are valid. Not necessarily correct...but valid.

So, without further ado:

Five wrote:

Cure wrote:I... honestly don't have even the foggiest idea of who might be maifa.

This is... unlike you, Cure. Hmm.

Glad this was posted in my downtime. Because this is how I've felt most of the game, honestly.

Er, no. More accurately, this, and other quirks are unlike Town Cure.

To start with what Five pointed out, Cure tends to be very aggressive, honing in on a target, and taking it down. More than just in terms of actions, she can usually pick up on Mafia-like behavior in people, and either press hard on them until they feel less scummy to her, or until she's sure she has the right target, then fire away.

While thi8s isn't what I was looking for in the dive, one thing I did notice on Mafia Cure was her tendency to not get right down to name targets, to pressing for answers. It was usually more of an, "idk guys, this game is hard." At least until some Town (or even a Mafia) made some innocuous mistake, then bully them until they were mislynched (pending cooler heads, anyway). That way she was never backing down from a prior FoS, so no one could really question why she did a 180.

But, alright. Being uncertain in a game, esp one like this, it happens. Even to those of us most sure of ourselves. So...what was it that made me do the archive dive initially, anyway?

Tiki The Troll wrote:

Cure wrote:

Crypsis wrote:but anyway alca is like a really bad liar and i get the feeling that she's telling the truth that she's town with an unhelpful role. so I won't be voting for her even if she's okay with being lynched!

This is how I've been feeling too.

Yet here I am, reading this and being reminded of the origins of "Alcapone" and this gif:
[Insert bear gif here)

That said, I do believe Alca. Not saying she's Town, but that her role probably works as she says it does.

I guess first, I just thought it kind of weird that Crypsis said that. Not that I don't think she can't say that and believe it, and, if I recall, she's played with Alca on VDex before...but, that was a long time ago, yeah? And Crypsis has only played one game here (official game, anyway), so far, so it just seemed like a weird thing to say.

What brought that from, "Huh, weird, but okay," to "Uh, wait," though, was Cure jumping in on that to affirm it. Most, if not all times, Cure starts bringing up how it would be odd for a particular person to act a certain way, for better or worse, she flips Mafia. Whether she's trying to take eyes away from an ally, or start a riot vs another player, Cure seems to only really comment on personal play style, and not more general "It's good/bad to do this as Town/Mafia" inconsistencies (which, again, she's good at sniffing out) when trying to bully the forum into a misdirection.

Besides that, when I took the archive dive, it was motivated by the fact that this would not be the first time Cure, or even others, said, "X doesn't usually do things like this, they're probably Town," that made me think, "But...that's not true?" Typically when that happens, I don't comment on it, assume I just suck, that the person talking is better, and KNOWS better...then I lose. XD

And so, looking back at Alca as Mafia since Cry Wolf started...I don't see how anyone could infer this. The first time was in my Vanilla game, where she hid in plain sight, acted much like her usual self. She was also Mafia in Animal Crossing, where...not much could be inferred there, the Mafia were basically outed and backed into a corner immediately (though she was still pretty active). In Katabasis she was Mafia for a day, and that game was weird anyway. Finally...she was Mafia in Gakuen 2, yeah (that one was kinda hard to research, got kinda cluster-fucky). Either way, there she was basically just AFK all game because of her internet.

So...I just don't see where the "this is unlike Maf Alca/Alca can't lie, lol" train of thought is coming from.

And misdirection is the thought that made me perk up on this day phase too, and reevaluate everything. I mean, it just...seems like a lot of the discussion in the game, esp this phase, has been a lot of talk, but not a lot of collaboration, esp talk on actions/targets that don't seem like they should currently be our focus. And I fear the, "Well, lynch someone besides Gerry, we'll get more info that way," and even the "If you kill me, let me give away my items first ;v;" suggestions and requests could just be stalling in a game with no ratio.

Now again, there were events and ideas that made me doubt. They aren't fully gone, but they hold less credence for me now. To have it all out in the open though, those doubts:

• Cure has really pushed for people to act. Has voiced wanting discussion.
  
• Cure, Alca, and Crypsis for that matter, haven't really been scummy.
  
• It's typically not a good idea to seem so close knit as Mafia.
  
• I still have bad feelings about Gerry, and that runs counter to Alca's claim, and the votes of those here.

And also, why I have doubts about my doubts:

• Cure ALWAYS pushes people to act. It lets her hide well as Mafia, and she works best when she has discussion that she can snowplow into a favorable direction.
  
• On top of that, more message sending CAN help Mafia, either leading people astray, learning what info and items Town has, and who knows, maybe even a passive that benefits from messages. (This is also why I don't think not sending messages is inherently "anti-Town," and and that Mafia would actually be better about sending messages anyway, to misdirect, and because they can remind one another.)
  
• No, they haven't been scummy...though Alca has been unusually quiet (aside from defending herself), and hasn't been tossing out early votes to probe people, like usual. Crypsis, I know nothing about, just that the vouching for Alca still felt weird. And Cure...I've said plenty on that, I think. XD
  [p*]Through messages, Cure also apparently got people to kill others, and revive someone who is Mafia at worst, a distraction at best (no offense, Gerry, more just from the clues, flavor, and role). Granted, no one seems to really be questioning that...so I guess it could just be me.
  
• How closely they tied to themselves to one another seems atypical of a sound, Maf strategy, though, again, Cure does that sometimes.
  
• Still could be some ridiculously elaborate ploy ("Both of you claim miller, they'll probably believe one of you has to be Town"), but, even if Alca is Town, I know for a fact that Cure has no qualms about bussing the team (from personal experience, and from the archive dive XD).

Okay.

Dear God this is long.

But yeah. Ultimately, I could just be really off base, but I had to get these worries out in the open. And before anyone gets on me for hypocrisy, FoSing people for their individual play styles about talking about individual play styles...I'd say that is more typical of me, at least in more recent games granted, the only Town examples of that are Symphony Mafia, and Whoddunit, heh).

Ugh. Headache's back...anyway, discuss away? XD

(So many ninjas. I'm going to post this, then back read.)

I'm gonna vote she-ra for now, perhaps change my vote later. I'm not sure yet.

Also at Tiki, I see you.

Mr. Gerbear wrote:u r a mystery katze

I've noticed the less aggressive behaviour from cure as well and wondered, but I've decided to just observe first, because barring that not being typical town!cure, she has been fairly helpful and pro-town so far.
(I also have an explanation that I assumed for the whole vouching deal, but I'll let people explain first - if they will - and see if it lines up with what I assumed.)

Hey so: we're extending the phase by 24 hours because the forum was down during the time when people are more active on the forum, and it'd be unfair to simply push rollover forward 4 hours into the wee hours when people tend to be more afk. We've talked to several players about this too, and no one's voiced any objections, so this phase will go on for another 24 hours yet

If anyone is Very Adamantly Against this let us know

oh good. this is the first I've gotten the site to load in hours!!

Re: npcs treating me different - I didn't get any info that was helpful really, but I do still think there's a chance that if an NPC has the capacity to be helpful that they would give more information to me than some others because of my role. Does that make sense?? I hope it helps.

Re: all the votes on me - please don't.. you aren't gonna learn anything about who is maf or not from this just a neat little factoid about me which fits well with my role IS THIS TOO REVEALING? I'm sorry if it is I just. I can't say because rules I think but essentially, I am not a good information lynch target and also I am town I promise.

I gotta go :s I will check back in the morning.

Tiki The Troll wrote:I guess first, I just thought it kind of weird that Crypsis said that. Not that I don't think she can't say that and believe it, and, if I recall, she's played with Alca on VDex before...but, that was a long time ago, yeah? And Crypsis has only played one game here (official game, anyway), so far, so it just seemed like a weird thing to say.

umm i'm going to make a post after i send in my action because I wanted to do that first before i forgot but BEFORE THAT I wanted to reply to this!!! This is only my second game of mafia ever and i never played on vdex, and alca is my irl best friend! i know her way better than you do! >A<)9

Woo, we're back!

And okay, good to know, Crypsis. =D I'm just going by what I've seen from her here.

Oh, so that's why we're only on page 9! I literally got back from work maybe twenty minutes ago. Glad to know I might be able to get in another vote.

kk i'm back i sent my action! >w<)/

So i'm like 10000000% sure that Mr. Gerbear and alca-nee are not on the same team so if you think that alca-nee and Cure-senpai are both mafia together then Cure-senpai telling someone to revive Mr. Gerbear doesn't even make sense! i still think alca-nee is town based on what I know about her and what she told me about past games as both mafia and town, but i guess it's just me saying it and nobody has to take my word for anything.

uhhh so i think i might maybe vote She-ra because people are saying that lynching She-ra will get us the most information? I don't really understand that part (about getting the most information) though, can someone explain that to me please! owo)a

I tried to post this right as the forum went down, and in the time that it's been down I have revised it to twice the length it was. Cries.

Now that the forum seems to be back up?? I edited this while playing overwatch and I'm still not here.

Anyway, sup Tiki. Senpai is noticing you.

Crypsis is one of Alca's friends. She had not played mafia at all prior to the game she played hwere (At least I think she hadn't. Not with any of us, anyway). I'm pretty sure she's a good judge of alca's personality. My comment was solely based on the fact that I was thinking the exact same thing as her, and a theory always has more credibility when there's more people backing it up.

You seem pretty fixated on the whole "But Cure how can you tell Alca's bad at lying when she's mafia because I don't think she's bad at lying when she's mafia?!" Well, let me tell you.

The comments related to Alca being bad at hiding that she's mafia when she's mafia came solely from the fact that I was mafia with Alca in both Animal Crossing Mafia and Gakuen v2 Mafia. It's very, very, very, verryyyy easy to see differences in how people are playing when you're on the other side of the fence with them (As in, you're mafia together). You also get a lot of insight based on the questions they ask in maf chat. Alca seemed pretty unsure of how to replicate her town playstyle in AC maf especially, and asked a lot of questions about how she should be behaving or what she should be saying. Gakuen 2 she had unfortunate internet troubles, but the same behavior aspects still came up.

In both games, people were pretty must instantly suspicious of Alca for not behaving the way she normally does, and just seeming off or less active than normal. She was very quiet and MIA all the time, and even though she was an Actual Miller in Gakuen 2, no one really believed she was town when she flipped that way.


I don't really see her being less active than normal in this game? She's never really been someone who posts constantly all phase, but her posts all still have substance. Also, again, she's been providing me with item and location information that she didn't have to, and I'm not sure why she would if she were mafia. The items she's telling me about, mafia would not want town to know where they are, and I had no intention of going to the areas she's told me about before she told me about them.

I'm not really sure what to say Tiki. If you legitimately think I'm mafia for playing the way I always play (I haven't even played in months, and haven't been mafia in a very long time. There aren't iron clad rules for how everyone should play each game), and this isn't you just trying to dismantle my posting style just because it's me and you have this weird thing about me literally every game and seem to have this strange perception of how I should be acting. If a lot of people agree with this assumption, feel free to shoot me. There's both killing and revival items in play. Go ahead and shoot me if you think I'm mafia, and then revive me when I flip town.I don't really care.

I'm a little baffled that you've decided to draft up such a long post specifically to throw suspicion on me and Alca, when you haven't really contributed, if anythig, this game. I mean... you could easily be maf with Gerry and wanting us to NOT lynch Gerry again and get Alca (who has been heavily contributing to spec/location information) lynched and then get me lynched once she flips mafia if she is indeed a miller. See, it goes both ways.

Re: The me apparently encouraging shooting and revival of mafia members.

I could have just asked Sammie to give me the gun. In her initial PM she was saying she was unsure if she could use it effectively and wondering if she should pass it on to someone else. I could have told her to immediately shoot Drandahl instead of thinking about it longer. I could have told her to shoot someone else. Instead, I told her to go with what she thought was the best course of action, because she couldn't trust anyone other than herself to be town, not even me. I replied to her publicly, and I kept details of what she said hidden. You can read it. It's right here.

\"Cure wrote:To the person who sent me the second message:

I don't know who you are (but I could narrow it down to maybe like 5 people), but I believe you're town based on the contents of your message and the fact that you came to me for advice. I think you should trust your own instincts rather than passing the responsibility off onto someone else. You don't know who is town and who is mafia, but you know you yourself are town.

I'll be honest, I'm getting the same vibes as you are, and I don't think it's a bad idea for you to go through with it, but I also don't want to be the one responsible if it backfires so... ya know, go with your gut. Maybe even wait it out for a little bit and see if anything new pops up to make you change your mind, but I don't think you should leave this up to someone else. U can do it anonymous little mafia player. I believe in u!!

Wifom, wifom, wanting her to trust me, etc, but keep in mind that she asked Tet the same question (I also told Tet that an anonymous Probably Town person was considering shooting Drandahl in a message to him, before Sammie came forward about it being her and before she messaged Tet herself. He can confirm this).


Regarding Katze. Katze messaged me saying she had an item that she was pretty sure would reveal information on dead players. She did not tell me what the item did, she did not tell me what the item was. She asked me if she should use it on Eleni or Gerry if he flipped mafia. I told her (also publicly in the thread, and with vague wording not to give away too much information to mafia) to use it on Gerry since he'd just flipped mafia and maybe we could learn more information. I had even less way of knowing what the item would do than she did, given that she told me literally nothing beyond "I have this thing, which person should I use it on?". She was the one who suggested using it on Gerry, I just told her which I thought was the better target.

However, the way she worded her post after it happened so it came across like "CURE TOLD ME TO DO THIS THING IT WASN'T MY FAULT!!!" Does have me looking at her kind of funny because it's like she's trying to blame me for what happened when I couldn't have known it would revive gerry if she didn't.

My post

Cure wrote:@Katze - I think you should do the second thing rather than the first. I think it could potentially give us some useful information. Especially after the results we just had.

Her post

Katze wrote:I'M HERE I"M HERE>

Yes, i did the thing. Nowhere did it tell me it was going to revive someone. I thought it'd just tell me what they actually were. Like an investigation thing. I didn't know it was going to REVIVE THEM. It was the thing I asked you about, Raie.

Gerry being revived was my fault and it was an accident. I asked Raie if I should do a thing, she said yes, so I did. And now Gerry is alive.

Anyway, it seems a bit like you're trying to twist my intentions into being something malicious, when I've been nothing but transparent with... pretty much everything I've been doing and saying. I don't know any more than the rest of us (beyond what other people have told me and what I can infer, which is mostly just locations because I have a pretty good idea of what the whole map looks like now). I'm really wondering what your point is here. You didn't really come to any conclusion and your post reads a lot like mafia trying to throw suspicion on an active speculator around the time when people start wondering why they're still alive.

Also. I don't bus teammates unnecessarily. /thumbs up.

Note: I'd never come up with this supposed miller claiming strategy lol. Like... claiming miller when you're mafia just gets attention brought on you. Especially if everyone would probably have ignored you otherwise. People dont' believe miller claims in the best of cases. From actual millers. That's not my style of gambit, yo.

And even if I had come up with that for some reason, I wouldn't tell Alca and Gerry of all people to do it. :T

Cure out.