Paw Enforcement [BEARS WIN]

Luxaria wrote:This post is too long.

Luxaria wrote:This post is too long.

Luxaria wrote:This post is too long.

Luxaria wrote:This post is too long.

Luxaria wrote:This post is too long.

Honestly, all I'm doing all the time is just trying to catch up.

Okay, so.

I'm honestly not at all surprised that alca got killed, given she was stripped of her bulletproof. This also makes me think that it's likely that the N0 NK was withheld rather than forgotten, with the mafia forcing our hand to make the first move with no information to go on. Also expected alca to double-shoot someone, so not surprised on that account - and good call on it too.

I honestly don't mind if we do the same thing with votes during this day phase as well, though while giving them double guns it would probably also sign their death warrant. However, I think this way we can possibly learn the most - both through the person's targets as well as through what happens to them afterwards.

For that reason, I'd rather give double guns to someone who reads ??? or maybe town but not sure. I'd rather keep the killproof intact on the ones we think are highly likely or near-confirmed town. Even if we end up giving the guns to a mafia, we're more likely than not to learn a lot + possibly learn that they're mafia that way, so I think that's our most efficient play here. In addition to that, it allows us some control over who actually dies /can be killed. I'd also support double-shooting in the future as well, because less people without killproof = more control over who lives because the mafia has to pop the killproof first.

If I'll have time later, I'll skim through the thread again before posting more reads on particular players, but for now have this.

People I'd rather not give a gun to are:
- Luxaria, because her spec reads very town to me and I'd rather not touch her killproof;
- Gerry, because I don't think he's been active enough to make solid reads and could make a good decision on who to shoot (and that way probably wouldn't give us much info);
- myself, because I haven't had enough time to pay attention and I don't trust myself to make a good decision on who to shoot at this point in game.
People I would give two guns to:
- katze, because of the "thing" with Lux rn, I think it would be interesting to see who katze would pick to shoot;
- Rasei, because she often catches on things well but can't get her message across, so I think it would be very informative to see who'd she pick and why;
- Aeiou, because her spec tends to be fairly solid if often missed /not followed, an excellent example being last main round game (but less than other two bc it would be beneficial to keep her alive).


The people that I haven't mentioned are kinda in the gray area for me rn, meaning I don't really trust them but I don't think we'd benefit much from seeing who they'd shoot either.

edited to switch the order to make more sense.

Sorry Ive been spending a lot of time on mobile and just reading in chunks. Also a lot happened around rollover on my break, I was originally thinking that Alca could do the vote if we do another only one person votes because we can obviously trust her with a gun. If we go that route honestly I would trust Lux the most on doing the vote both because I trust her to be active up until rollover and I trust her with a gun. I know I got instance can def not check the thread before rollover as I'm running an appointment room and I usually run behind (whoops ;0;) so if we have a plan before I go into work that'd be ideal haha.
I did like Alca's idea of the sort of fake voting so we all still sort of vote but at the same time we'd really no vote except for one. I do think controlling the gun is a good idea but also getting some info from votes is a good idea so this is a good one of doing both. Also we could still run it by a tally and whoever gets the most (fake) votes, our trusted person could vote on them before rollover (which I still think should be Lux)

Also although I agree about theres some people you might want to vote yet dont want to give a gun to well, if they only get one gun I dont think it would be too damaging at this point. We are in pretty good standing with only two maf left so??? I dont think its super dangerous to give someone like psuedo lulu a gun because even if they are rowdy and go wild it at this point wouldnt even kill someone (assuming they get the gun by being the vote target, theyd be the only one without the bulletproof and wouldnt shoot themselves)

And to Katze asking why I thought she was mafia what I was saying in the vein of lux and katze cant both be mafia I said Id be more likely to think you were mafia but I wasnt saying you were actually mafia. Just more likely imo than Lux just based off of how pro-town Lux has been and youve just fallen into neutral warm soup waters for me. Of course Lux could be taking us all along for a ride, always a possibly but not really one I feel like entertaining rn since Lux has been cooperative and helpful.

re: why wouldnt mafia kill someone who lost their bulletproof, if town didnt trust a person and we voted them and then they also didnt get NK'd they'd look scummy. The WIFOM. So even if it seems straightforward that anyone we vote would then get NK'd its actually not that straightforward? Which is why I mentioned even if we dont want a particular person to get a gun it might still be more helpful to vote for people youre suspicious of and not just nuetral and trusting of having a gun. I feel like Lux has been saying this for a while and it only just now clicked for me completely I think??

Also I cant say I thought Alca would double down on shots omg but that was a good gut read?? I still have trouble reading Dran (read:actually no thats my reads on everyone)
I dont know that my list of people has changed TOO much because even though some good things happen the only other thing that might change me is maybe how Dran reacted to certain people? Otherwise I feel like a bunch of people who havent posted much still havent posted much.

Lux- I trust Lux, I dont know tha tI need to go into further detail?? Would trust lux with gun, would not want to vote on lux or have her lose bulletproof.
Gerry- I hope you can catch up and post some of your bear opinions, shouldnt you know who is a bear??? I dont know what to do with you lol might be ok with giving a gun, might be ok voting for, might whatever yolo
Ezz- Thanks for making a cute post! I dont think I'd want to vote for you atm, and I think you bring up good points of not being a great person for a gun although I dont think youd be the worst with a gun?
Blaire - What are you even doing lmao. I dont think I'd mind Blaire losing a bulletproof but at the same time I dont know if I have the heart to vote for Blaire atm. So innocent and lost. Although I dont know how great Blaire would be with a gun it might be amusing at least.
Tiki - Has been sick so hasnt posted much still. Wouldnt mind voting for, wouldnt mind losing bulletproof, probably wouldnt want to give a gun.
Ninfia - Id love to hear more from! I feel like I need to revisit Ninfia when shes posted more tbh, Im really waffling here
Rasei - Rasei's anger seemed in line with how upsetting it was for town to not listen to her in end of the world so Im more town leaning atm on Rasei. Not looking to vote Rasei, at the same time not sure I want Rasei to have a gun?
Katze - uhh hmm I feel like this lux/katze thing has taken up enough time that its really distracting, its hard to know if youve even posted anything that isnt about lux. I MEAN I KNOW YOU HAVE BUT its sort of drown out to me. I can kind of see how you could find Lux sus but at the same time I dont even want to cross that bridge yet of is Lux maf and taking us on ruse cruise. However I think shes addressed everything really well. Neutral on Katze, Im not excited about the push on Lux but at the same time it seems too much and too bold for a team of two mafia. That being said probably wouldn't mind voting for, wouldnt mind losing bulletproof, dont trust with a gun though.

So no go on voting for this phase:
Lux, Rasei, Ezz(?), Ninfia(?), Blaire (????)

Dont mind voting for:
Katze, Gerry, Tiki

Basically everyone I dont want to give a gun I also dont mind voting for lmao. My question marks are not preferred votes but at the same time I wouldnt be too upset if it went that way? I just dont have many feelings on them.

SO REAL vote: NO VOTE
Fake!vote: Tiki

Wellp I feel like all that was unnecessary lol. I'm just not even gonna comment on all that anymore. Not gonna clarify, not gonna discuss, i'm just gonna drop it and move on. You're all allowed to feel whatever you want. The one time I start to try and get detailed with my posts and I feel like I'm being literally attacked for it so I probably won't do it anymore.

Anyway, I'm still fine with whatever.

Was struck by a thought that maybe I should explain why I said I'd give two guns to someone who is ??? a bit better.

Primarily, because giving it to someone who we think is very likely town and has been expressing their reads clearly, gives us little to no information while at the same time stripping said likely-town person of their killproof. Secondly, the point is that even if we give mafia a gun, they will have to use it pro-town. If they don't, they'll just get lynched /shot. As long as we control who the gun from voting is given to, we can ensure that the mafia will be forced to act pro-town, and at the same time we put those who are ??? in the spotlight, forcing them to spec and explain who they shot and why, and spec and discussion is the only way we can catch on mafia in this type of a game.

Hence why I support continuing giving two guns to a person, as well as giving it to ??? people and not those who are thought to be very likely town. For now, at least. Future changes in ratio and/or killproofs remaining might change this.

Also, vote: no vote for now, in case we don't decide on a person before I go to bed.

ninja'd by katze, will read later, gotta go back to the kitchen

Vote: No Vote for now since today's a lil busy for me, though i'll do my best to read through everything during lunch break!

I agree with what Ezz has said 100%.

Also gonna vote:no vote because today is a day where I come home super close to rollover and I dunno if I'll be home by the time rollover happens. I'll be gone in the evening.

Okay so I lied. I won't let the lux thing go, but I'll talk about it later on after things settle down a bit because I don't want things to get too heavy or heated and I still feel like I've got something.

But thanks for quoting yourself for me, Lux. That helps me out.

Mr. Alice wrote:holy god

Edit: Thinking on it...
While I don't expect anyone to go along with the idea, and for very good reasons, I think I should be the one voted on today, even though that means I'll get at least one gun.

I've been able to follow well enough to at least have the gist of what's going on, and I ought to be able to shoot whoever is agreed upon to be shot during the 24 hour night phase.

Also, that gives Mafia a tougher decision. I mean, taking out an Alca is without bulletproof is a no brainier. The choice between taking out Tiki, removing another Town bulletproof, or shooting one of their own to get another gun is not so simple a choice.

Who are your choices for shooting if you were to get the gun, Tiki? Not that I don't think we should still all sit down and discuss it before bullets go blaring, we need to all be on board, but I'm just curious who you have in mind! I wanna know your thought process, tiki.

Thought process: "My brain feels like it's floating in a bathtub."

Uhm...Well, no to shooting Lux. Nor Blair, not Gerry, I don't think. If I'm reading the Drandahl thing right.

Maybe taking a shot at Ninfia? She's been exceptionally quiet. That's not atypical of Mafia!Ninfia. And if she's Town, not as big a deal either, since she hasn't offered much so far.

Tiki The Troll wrote:I've been able to follow well enough to at least have the gist of what's going on, and I ought to be able to shoot whoever is agreed upon to be shot during the 24 hour night phase.

A large part of my reasoning for whom to give the gun to is based on "I want to see who this person will shoot, and that should provide us some information about their alignment and/or thinking", so giving guns to someone who says they'll just shoot whoever is agreed upon to be shot is completely pointless.

ezzelin wrote:

Tiki The Troll wrote:I've been able to follow well enough to at least have the gist of what's going on, and I ought to be able to shoot whoever is agreed upon to be shot during the 24 hour night phase.

A large part of my reasoning for whom to give the gun to is based on "I want to see who this person will shoot, and that should provide us some information about their alignment and/or thinking", so giving guns to someone who says they'll just shoot whoever is agreed upon to be shot is completely pointless.

Fair

katze wrote:Wellp I feel like all that was unnecessary lol. I'm just not even gonna comment on all that anymore. Not gonna clarify, not gonna discuss, i'm just gonna drop it and move on. You're all allowed to feel whatever you want. The one time I start to try and get detailed with my posts and I feel like I'm being literally attacked for it so I probably won't do it anymore.

That is the very last thing you should do. Discussion and talking is all fine. It is the most pro-town thing anyone can ever do. The reason I summoned cthulhu is because your points you were using against me were all things that either A) I literally never said, and not in the Trump "I didn't say that" kind of way, and B) Things I had tried to repeatedly and consistently make known and clear.

Bear in mind in all of this I still don't even have reason to think you're mafia, which is why I'm not, pun really goddamned intended, gunning for your head. I just want to completely shut down the points that have no basis at all in fact. Like if you say I'm being too controlling/prominent, or my interaction with Dylan in some way was unsettling, or my views on other players or whatever felt wrong, that's fine--we can work with that. But saying that early on I suspected you of being mafia, which I BASICALLY did the opposite of, and then saying that I was backpedaling or whatever else--like, I get you were not okay with my suggestions of lynching you last phase... But why didn't you say anything to alcasync who agreed with that plan? And even with the fact that alca kept indicating she trusted me enough to the point that she thought it'd be a better situation if she died and I lived instead of the reverse? This said, you should never solely rely on someone's opinions, even alcasync's even if she got a mafia in the process, because they could be right on some things and wrong on others. But I guess I just don't understand why one of your four points was that Dylan said he trusted me, when meanwhile alcasync and the entire rest of the thread did, too.

Tl;dr: Don't give up, but don't come at me with points against me relating to things that never happened.

re: the other posts
I am drowsy.
I follow the idea on getting more out of giving guns to an ??? because it reveals more of their alignment, plus that we're not in that much danger due to 2:7. This is partly why I am down for lynching people like Ninfia and Tiki right now, but. We have so much accountability for gunshots that some of what the players will do will be guided by community input. So it's give and take to some degree. My only thing right now is that as much as I'd like to see who katze would shoot, I am most concerned she'd shoot me, which from my perspective is the most clear-cut anti-town thing I think she can do, and I don't even think she's necessarily mafia. She could be, any of you could be, but yeah.

I'll weigh in on other thoughts when I'm more awake.
So we're feeling like having only one person vote again, huh? Honestly, I am kind of down to be the one to cast a lynch vote on Tiki or Ninfia if we, as a collective, want to do that. But I'll think on this first. More reads pls.

[quote="Luxaria"]

katze wrote:I'll weigh in on other thoughts when I'm more awake.
So we're feeling like having only one person vote again, huh? Honestly, I am kind of down to be the one to cast a lynch vote on Tiki or Ninfia if we, as a collective, want to do that. But I'll think on this first. More reads pls.

tiki is okay with this