Welcome to Katabasis Station, Work Shift 4

CLAIMS
ezzelin > med bay - ship task
Ninfia > med bay - ship task
alcasync > Cargo Hold - explore
nautilus > Cargo Hold - explore
Luxaria > Was alone - explore
high seraph > Galley - explore
Tiki the Troll > Cargo Hold - explore
Aeiou > Galley - ship task
Kiyoko > Armory - explore
drandahl >
Mr. Alice > Armory - explore [mentions wanting to get the flamethrower]
Rasei > Cargo Hold - ship task

re: Rasei btw since I backread and Aeiou also tried a ship task - the main issue of contention and why I'm asking her vs Aeiou/Med Bay people is that the ship task of the cargo hold can only be done once, while the galley's doesn't have any apparent limits on usage

I also have an inkling about what Luxaria's role power (?) is but this is purely based off what I feel like she would've gone for given her hints, but I won't press it for now.

On phone, but @ Mitsu:

I asked Duck last night, since I thought as you did re: ship task requiring one person, but saw other mentions in thread. Duck confirmed only one person needs to submit a ship task and it'll go through if there are 3 or more in the room, even if no other player submitted ship task. They might confirm in thread, but you could try PMing if you want to check.

Which means the cargo hold situation is interesting.

Will confirm that I tried to activate the ship task last night.

I agree with the idea that one of the four cargo hold claims are probably the convert-- at this point it makes more sense for that person to lie and say they were there.

In all honesty, my gut reaction was to think that Rasei was the convert. if I were playing mafia and someone said they rolled a die, it makes sense to me that there's a good chance that she'd wind up alone. Conversions are way better for the mafia ratio than a straight up kill.

I think going forward, we need to organize. The town being disorganized is going to kill us very quickly. also, way 2 forget me in your team a/b list, lucas :'( I'm heart broken.

another thing, I'd thought that I saw someone claim to have done a ship action in the cargo bay (meaning that they are a liar since no ship tasks happened) but I may be wrong. I'm heading to work so I don't have time to try and hunt for that claim - which I either dreamed up or was edited out before anyone else posted- but now I'm doubting myself a bit, haha.

Rasei wrote:Heads up I work 9am Central Time to 9:30pm Central Time, so I'm not going to be around. I picked ship task because I didn't think anyone would have gone where my special blue die sent me. (I must take a picture of my dice.

Isolating this for a second, but in that case assuming that everyone was genuinely in the cargo hold then if what Lux says is correct (and Ducky can confirm in-thread if necessary) then Something Should Have Happened Last Night. I'm willing to float that maybe she just got exploration and ship task confused, but before this comment several players had differentiated between the two (Aeiou had specifically mentioned ship task, other players had specifically mentioned exploration).

I... don't know if Rasei will be back in time to discuss this though but this adds a lot of credence that someone(s) likely lied about being in the cargo hold last night, because last night I was staring into the thread and going:


... Actually, to be completely honest, this opens up the following scenarios:

• Rasei was never in the cargo hold to begin with.
  
• Rasei was in the cargo hold and tried to initiate a ship task, but it failed (which implies that alca/Tiki were lying about being in the cargo hold).
  
• Rasei got exploration and ship task confused.

n☆util☆s wrote:... Actually, to be completely honest, this opens up the following scenarios:

• Rasei was never in the cargo hold to begin with.
  
• Rasei was in the cargo hold and tried to initiate a ship task, but it failed (which implies that alca/Tiki were lying about being in the cargo hold).
  
• Rasei got exploration and ship task confused.
  

Actually, wait, if Rasei was in the cargo hold and indeed did "Ship Task," if it were to fail that would mean only two people were in the room, yeah? Therefore, wouldn't that mean TWO people were lying about being in the hold?

And, while I know you know you're own alignment, I do like how you kept yourself out of the "who must be lying" camp. XD (Might just be difference in playstyles, I just tend to list myself too whenever speculating on suspects, if i happen to be one, heh). Though, still, curious...if Rasei does actually mean ship task, then yeah, that means half of us were lying. =/

I know my own alignment, and while I'm also incriminated as well because I'm part of this cargo hold debacle, I know that I'm not lying. :Ua

And yeah, that's what I figured - probably should've written out alca + Tiki to make it clearer. I'd like to hear from more people about this (and Duck to confirm in-thread), but I guess this opens up a whole can of worms for us to speculate and muse on.

Some thoughts, some belated, others recent:

nautilus wrote:For what it's worth and this is exceedingly circumstantial, but I feel like mafia (if they scattered) would not try the cargo hold first for items because the item is randomly generated and therefore not guaranteed (while everything else is)

I agree and disagree. When I was considering actions last night, I tentatively hovered on the idea of going to the cargo hold, figuring it might be one of those less desired rooms by other players. But then I realized if that was my thought, there might be others going there as well, so I'm not surprised that at least a few people might have been in there, and that 4 people have claimed that room altogether. (Fun fact: The other room I was considering as a cheeky move was going EVA, but upon questioning, Duck stated that somehow being in space does not prevent you from being contaminated by the NK, so. That plan was no-go.)

But, related to the quote above, I agree with Kiyoko:

Kiyoko wrote:I mean to some extent I agree that it's def not highest priority, but to some extent, if we know people are going to be camped out in the med bay, that means the cargo hold is the only way to get the detective role and so it has value for that reason.

That said, we can use the server room's ship task to determine what roles are in play. However, until two instances of a role are detected, we might not know if the cargo hold's gear is the one gotten from the room it corresponds to or not.

So, following up on my last post, I am a little suspicious of the cargo hold claims as a result. If Rasei is town and sent in a ship task for the cargo hold, that means at least two people in the cargo hold claims are lying. However, Rasei could be lying about sending in the ship task and she was never in that room, and the other three are telling the truth. Or it could be a mix of these things.

From my understanding of Rasei's mafia (as in when she's mafia) playstyle, she tends to fly under the radar and not make her presence too known or obvious. In this case she's specifically suggesting a ship task, which can backfire horribly in her face. She did announce the ship task after all other claims came in, but seeing as she didn't comment on it, either she didn't know not everyone had to submit a ship task for it to occur (as several seem to think), or she wasn't paying attention. The other option is that the infected didn't understand the mechanics and were not aware only one person had to submit a ship task for it to go through. Unless they did that purposefully hoping to throw shade on the other three claims. This implicates Rasei as well, however, given that she was also supposedly in the room and, as nautilus points out, going for the cargo hold's ship task on N0 is a bit unusual.

I agree with others that I am slightly more inclined to believe alcasync and nautilus (nautilus more-so) of entering the cargo hold, but given the situation I am still going to keep an eye on them.

We still haven't heard from drandahl.

Two posts just came in, so I'm going to go read those.

lucas, you took a segment of my post and quoted it and said it wasn't necessarily true, when said segment was only based on the assumption above it, and obviously isn't true if the assumption isn't.

confirming that I attempted to do the ship task, since I thought all people had to perform the ship task in a room in order for it to work. interesting situation we have there with rasei and a ship task that should've worked after clarification, but apparently didn't.

would still like to here from drandahl before drawing any further conclusions.

and from everyone involved in the cargo hold again (re: the awkward situation with ship task).

Of the three claims, I'm most likely to believe alcasync's. From my perspective, I knew someone(s) had been in the hold with me because my inbox had no new PMs in it (hence my awkward post-rollover question because I... wasn't sure if I should be expecting something), and alcasync was the first player to both claim my room correctly and claim that someone else was in it shortly after rollover.

Outside of random guessing, the only way she could have known the cargo hold had someone in it if she were not actually in that room (regardless of alignment), given that no one had explicitly claimed entering the cargo hold at all last night, was if her mafia partner (if she were mafia) ended up in the cargo hold instead and told her that someone was in the cargo hold.

This defense doesn't hold up for the latter two claims (Tiki/Rasei) because by that point it was already known that multiple people were in the cargo hold, and it would be easy enough to say "I was in there too!" because neither alca nor I had claimed ship task, just exploration, and therefore with the information we had no one could determine the # of players in there... until Rasei. I mean, exploration will only work if you're alone, so at best you only know that at least one other person is with you (maybe more) when you explore and it fails.

Given the delay in alca's claim (the... 17 minute delay) I guess that could be ample enough time for her to concoct a plan to claim her room with her mafia partner and fish out whoever else was in it, but I'm not sure if maf!alca would really do such a thing.

Luxaria wrote:In this case she's specifically suggesting a ship task, which can backfire horribly in her face.

Reading this over, I kind of think the same way, which is why I'm also willing to float the "maybe Rasei was just confused" defense, because Rasei tends to win mafia games by sliding in silently and she's making a large, verifiable claim here. The issue at hand is that I don't believe she'll be back to explain herself since she said she'd be gone for most, if not the entire day.

e: Got confirmation from Ducky, Lux is right and only one person needs to submit a task for a ship task to succeed

Rasei wrote:Ezz, may we post our pms that we are going to send here?

If you want to share who you suspect, you can. I won't stop you.

high seraph wrote:

Aeiou wrote:But with four in the cargo hold, if two were infected could they have converted one of them??

ezzelin wrote:additionally, if one of kiyo/blaire and lucas/vowels is the new Infected, the other in the pair has to be one of the original Infected.

That's not necessarily how it works, I think?? If the NK target is alone, they will become infected. If the only other players in the room are infected, they NK target will still become infected. And if there is any combination of crew members and infected in the room with the NK target, they will be incinerated.

AEIOU is mistaken. There needs to be no Crew in the room for someone Contaminated to become Infected. Two Crew and Two Infected would result in an Incineration.

Ezzelin is Correct, purely hypothetically, IF one of those four were the New Infected, THEN the other in that pair would need to be Original Infected.

I point this out not to help in analysis, but to confirm the rules are properly understood.

n☆util☆s wrote:Uh, question for Duck: Does every player in the room if there's more than 3 need to submit a ship task together for one to work, or can one person activate it without the input of everyone else? THIS SEEMS LIKE A STUPID QUESTION BECAUSE EVERYONE'S SAYING THAT ALL THREE HAVE TO DO IT BUT DUCK HAS NOT CONFIRMED IN-THREAD SO I'M VERY ;_; AND I ALSO THOUGHT ONLY ONE PERSON HAD TO DO THE THING i'm bad at reading page 1

Only ONE (1) Person has to submit a Ship Task for the Task to be activated. No help is required to activate a Ship Task. You can have mixed Explore/Ship Task Actions among a group, and the Ship Task will still work.

Purely hypothetically, IF at least ONE person submitted a Ship Task, the only way for the Task to fail would be if there were exactly Two (2) people in the Room, because of the Watch Your Back! rule.

Luxaria wrote:
I agree with others that I am slightly more inclined to believe alcasync and nautilus (nautilus more-so) of entering the cargo hold, but given the situation I am still going to keep an eye on them.

We still haven't heard from drandahl.

This is pretty much how I'm feeling too, since these two were the first two to claim, and nautilus seems to be acting in a fairly town fashion.

as it stands, there is an inconsistency we cannot account for, and my gut has been telling me something was odd with rasei anyway. (I yelled it at the lovely host loud enough for the people in the box seats in front of us yesterday to turn and give me stink eyes ///). I see the reasons people would hesitate, but I don't think its necessarily reasonable to assume confusion. I think people are a little prone to underestimating Rasei. She was really good in democratic oath mafia, where we managed to win together, but wouldn't have if she didnt tell me to change my vote last second while i was panicking.

I'm gonna Vote: Rasei for now because I have to follow my gut at this point, mainly. I would be willing to change this if something came up.

Okay so I just woke up but to rehash:

- Four people claimed to have gone to the cargo hold
- Rasei claimed to have activated a ship task
- No ship task was activated last night

So in short:

- Rasei is lying and/or mistaken
- Two of the ship task claims are lying

For what it's worth, given that there are three mafia, I don't think two of them would lie about going to the same room because if people find out there's some inconsistency in that story, that puts 2/3 of the mafia team in the spotlight. So I think it's far more likely that the inconsistency here is with Rasei's story than in two of alca/Mitsu/Tiki.

I think it's entirely believable that the entirety of maf thought you needed three people to all use ship task (since it seems most of thread was confused about this point), so it was safe to claim ship task since they could be like "Oh I tried to help but it didn't work because not enough people did the thing" and didn't expect it to backfire so horribly. If this is the case, and Rasei is maf, I'm inclined to think Mitsu and Lux are town.

For the same reasons as Mitsu, I'm most inclined to believe alca is telling the truth about being in the cargo hold, because she was first claim. This isn't an indication of alca's original alignment, though since no conversion could have happened in the cargo hold, I'm inclined to believe there is only one maf in the cargo hold because maf wouldn't send both its members to the same room.

I'm getting caffeine and then I'm going to reread thread but I'm most likely also voting Rasei for reasons stated above (that it's more likely that she's lying than the other three).

e: Oh yeah, Mitsu, re: your list and exploration/ship task claims, you're missing my full claim. I explored the armory because I wanted that Flammenwerfer.

@ nautilus (I keep wanting to say Mitsu after my exposure to that name, but I don't know if it's strange to call you that when I never knew you as that name?)

That's actually a very strong point in favor of alcasync, at least as far as your clearing of her being in the room counts.

There's a lot of variations between the four of you being town and mafia, and this may simply be down to Rasei misunderstanding the terminology between ship task and explore. There's also the chance that a mafia was actually in that room and was being truthful about it, but then this means another mafia or two lied, or, again, Rasei was mistaken. I'm honestly not sure how I will approach Rasei if she later claims that she meant explore. If she sticks to her claim of attempting to perform a ship task, then... this gets interesting. Very, very interesting.

Considering Ninfia's vote,my only hesitation is that while it would tell us Rasei's alignment (which is tremendously helpful in figuring this situation out), she might not be around to clarify if she actually sent in a ship task action or not. Meaning we could spend several phases checking the other people in the cargo hold if Rasei flips town. That said... the post from Kiyoko just now has two points I agree with:

Kiyoko wrote:For what it's worth, given that there are three mafia, I don't think two of them would lie about going to the same room because if people find out there's some inconsistency in that story, that puts 2/3 of the mafia team in the spotlight.

Kiyoko wrote:I think it's entirely believable that the entirety of maf thought you needed three people to all use ship task (since it seems most of thread was confused about this point), so it was safe to claim ship task since they could be like "Oh I tried to help but it didn't work because not enough people did the thing" and didn't expect it to backfire so horribly.

I MADE A TYPO AND FIXED IT BUT THEN YOU QUOTED MY TYPO SO I USED MY ADMIN POWERS TO FIX IT IN YOUR QUOTE

these things are important

Damnit, I was about to fix one of my typos before you posted, but now the edit will be there and it'll be ugly!

Ironically, I missed a space... while we're in space.