We are all mad here, are we not? OVER Town Win

I think this is a page top and will edit in vote tally shortly. And then will edit in my actual post.

Okay so. Regarding my vote. I thought I read a role hint re: the stunner, but in light of the fact that there is a jailer, the information I had no longer makes sense, and I'm still thinking this over.

I don't know if the stunner and jailer are opposite alignments or the same alignments. Surely they're not both mafia.

I think it should be obvious that my vote is between Cthuluhoop and Mr. Alice. I'm leaning towards Mr. Alice for the alcasync vote but there are a few things I'm still confused about that are preventing me from being confident in a vote at this moment.

How do you keep getting pagetops?

Actually, vote: Cthuluhoop not because I suspect him over Mr Alice, but because I want to force the tie and see who votes in which direction. If I'm right in that there's one mafia who isn't among the three (Kiyoko, Cthuluhop, Mr. Alice) then maybe forcing the tie will help us find out who that last mafia is.

O-ok there is a lot of terminology going on here. OTL But I will work on trying to following everyone's reasonings to protect...my...self...? Yes? Yes.

Out of the frying pan and into the fire, ah? sweats I'm a good guy I swear oof chamomile would hit the spot right now I was framed!

So Dormouse was killed with a glowing sword huh? Does that make one of the killers a chess-piece or a playing card character? ' n '

Oh wait, is the flavor text relevant? Because uhh...

Sammiya wrote:Cthuluhoop was walking through the woods when a snoring sound came from close by, lulling him into a peaceful sleep.

could indicate dormouse, but then if Tiki is the stunner it wouldn't really make sense for him to think the stunner was mafia as he is clearly town.

Alternatively, someone could be the Red King.

As for glowy sword.

Guess which incredibly obvious unnamed character I am.

Kiyoko wrote:Guess which incredibly obvious unnamed character I am.

edit: my bbcode isn't working, I'll just paste it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorpal_sword ?

Also I think Mr. Alice is roleplaying the Hatter? 'v'

*Drandahl wakes up several hours early, vigilant. He will not fall pray to inaction again. The strange happenings have escalated, and require a detailed and planned investigation.

Note: Most of this was being written while everyone has been posting, so there's a lot of reasoning that parallels the discussion.

More than anything, I do agree that Tiki seems like a suboptimal mafia target. Personally they were at the top of my suspicion list before tonight (sorry Tiki, in hindsight I think your actions more surprised me since I was off about you being guilty). Though if I'm correct in that my suspicion was shared among the group, he would have been a mafia asset this round. Though it's possible that makes him the clearest choice for a nk + feign town strategy, in which case I'm going to consider Kiyo at the very least a suspect.

If I'm operating under the assumption that Kiyo is telling the truth (or at the very least that the death of Tiki was town-originating), then regarding the lack of a NK, I could picture two scenarios:
1. Intentionally no NK, hoping for mis-lynch. Risk of this plan is mitigated if mafia has blocking roles on their team, though this is sill a really indirect plan. Maybe it's possible that mafia is concerned about some known defensive roles, though I'm going to mark this scenario as less probable.
2. Attempted NK, but blocked. Considering the game state before N1, attempted NK seems like a more likely plan than no attempted NK. This would mean either Tiki was targeted by NK (unlikely), attacker was blocked (making Cthm and Mr.A suspect), or target was saved.

I think I'm falling into the same list of suspects as the rest of you so far (one of Kiyo, Cthm, Mr Alice are mafia), though it's possible the NK target was just doctored or something. It's not crazy to me that some town jailed Mr. Alice as a precaution due to thinking they might be mafia, and it's not crazy to me that the previous stunner stunned Cthm again as a precaution. Btw, if it was Tiki that used the jail, would their jail go through before they died (game mechanic question)?

I'm still going to go with mafia being one of Kiyo, Cthm and Mr Alice, though I'm still giving my vote some thought. Will fall back to vote: Cthm since their interactions so far have been in a few thought-out bursts, though I'm still really concerned that Mr Alice might be just playing as a wildcard. I also need to think about whether it was more likely for the owner of the stun to be a new town player or a mafia player. I also need more time to think about Jaiser and Alca at this point, since there might be some interactions I haven't considered.

EDIT: Swiching to BBcode for vote
EDIT: Pronouns

Umm, Tiki was also #1 on my suspects list so I'm just as surprised as all of you. S-sorry Tiki!

drandahl, do you think the stunner is mafia or town, and do you think the jailer is mafia or town?

Edit: unvote: Cthuluhoop to continue forcing a tie!

alcasync wrote:do you think the stunner is mafia or town, and do you think the jailer is mafia or town?

Actually, let's all answer this question.

I personally agree with Cthulumint's logic that it makes more sense for a jailer to be town due to mafia not needing protection as much as town, but I also am somewhat leaning towards that they're both town, just because I guess I had a hunch (unsupported by any evidence whatsoever) that stunner was town stunner.

Edit: Despite the flavor text indicating that the stunning relates to sleep, I really don't believe Tiki was the stunner for a lot of reasons, the most notable being his post thinking that the stunner was mafia. Which means that it's likely that both the stunner and the jailer are still alive.

alcasync wrote:drandahl, do you think the stunner is mafia or town, and do you think the jailer is mafia or town?

NOTE: Lost my previous message (missed cmd button when clicking on notif that popped up due to Kiyo's message). Ugh.

I'd say that ether a new town or mafia has held stun so far. It seems less likely to me that a vet town would stun N0.

This is just the top of my posteriors given the current game state, but I'd say some vet town has jailer. If mafia had jailer, it would be beneficial to run that D0, and Mr. Alice wouldn't be the top choice for N1. If a new player had jailer, I would expect them to use it N0.

Note that I can't hold myself to anything past this solidly, but if I had to construct a narrative from this, I'd say that some town player held off on jailing N0, and jailed Mr. Alice as a precaution on N1. Some mafia stunned Tiki N0 and Cthm N1. I'm not sure if Cthm would be the optimal choice for a mafia->town stun N1, though it's possible mafia has some role-detection.

I'm still looking at Cthm and Mr. Alice with near-equal suspicion, though it is tipping towards Mr. Alice as I consider how less likely it is to go for a fake-out strategy N1. Still not changing my vote for now though, until I consider this further.

Note: Didn't consider this until now, but if a vet were on maf, and if maf had stun, they might consider to not attempt a nk and stun some town in an attempt to frame them. That's certainly a less direct approach, though maybe it's a safer strategy long-term. I'll have to think about this.

Confusion abounds, which serrrves the ne'erdowells' purpose handily and sends the just mice a-scurrying.

It goes without saying that amongst us is a foe that masquerrrades as a confused friend. And yet so simple is such duplicity, that I wonder who is overrplaying the hand of the innocent the most.

The mouse is dead, and his dream-addled theories silenced. But why? Why would the killerrs strike at the mouth of madness? Was the dormouse close to some revelation or had they reason to fear them otherwise? Or is it merely a diversion, as cat plays with mouse and taunts prey with the false possibility of escape before the claws drop and the teeth close?

If the mouse spoke true, and the page-top kitten likewise, then we have a clear cause for the slaying. Something in the dormouse's rhetoric was too close to the factual nature of things. But I find this unlikely. His was a tenuous train of logic and one borne of illness and fatigue alike. Such nonsensical ramblings, punctuated by the puncture of the assassin's metaphorical knife, serve as a distraction. The true killerrs remain among us, and seek discord amongst the denizens of the hamlet.

Wonderrland is a fine place for such vicious nonsense. But I find it odd that so many would jump to the side of extreme innocence when 'tis obvious that not all are innocent among us. One might even considerr that the most innocent amongst us has the most to hide. But at the same time, such could be the machinations of the vilely devious...and thus down the rrabbit hole do we descend.

I for one make no apology for my killer nature, no more than a cloud can be blamed for rain. But my kind favors that play of things, not the dagger in the back or the truncheon to the head that we've seen so far. Which thus has me question the most "innocent" amongst us.

Thus, I strike out at one most apparently innocent, knowing that should I perish in the following night, my accusations speak the truth.

vote: Kiyoko

[OOC: Seriously, let's ease off on the abbreviations and jargon a bit. This is Alice in Wonderland, let your poet freak flag fly, I say.]

I think it's very, very likely that a veteran town would stun n0, for reasons that I mentioned earlier. nvn (Town stun is town's primary way of blocking the night kill)

But since a lot of the newbies (well, Tiki and drandahl) seem to think that it's anti-town for stunner or jailer to act with no information, I can understand a newbie town being jailer, too!

oops ninja'd, let me post and then read.

Hold on Jaiser, I might be misinterpreting your post, but are you saying that you're voting me because I appear the most innocent and therefore I'm clearly not innocent? I'm not going to argue your vote for me because honestly I was expecting people to vote for me after that ridiculously shady "HEY GUYS I KILLED THE TOWN" outburst, but. That said, can I get your opinion whether you think the stunner and the jailer are maf or town?

Also quoted from our Skype conversation:

Kiyoko to Jaiser via Skype wrote:"I really want to say you're the cheshire cat, are you the cheshire cat?

I'll ask that in thread because you're not allowed to answer here"

Let us considerr the facts: a veterran was slain, followed by the one accusing you the most. Tis quite damning, if one takes the most surface of meanings.

But tis the quandry: did you expose yourself as a felon by your reaction to the dormouse's rhretoric or did another capitalize on such a possibility to make you the obvious choice? I choose the obvious because others ignore it, and someone must, for the obvious is sometimes the most devious.

I should know, for while I disappear, a disembodied smile is most peculiar. Though what that means for you or any, I leave to the imagination. Cats may be killers, true, but as I said, we prefer to play with our prey, not slay it pointlessly quickly in the dead of night.

This doesn't really mean much coming from me I suppose, but Tiki had enough people suspicious of him (myself, alca, drandahl and apparently also Cthulhumints) that if I were mafia, I honestly would just leave him alive so we could all lynch him the next day. Assuming mafia hit any other town, it would be a 2:4 ratio after killing a townie, 2:3 after I'd push a mislynch on Tiki, and then 2:2 after a successful mafia NK, which would be game.

I come up with devious mafia strategies, sure, but I wouldn't throw away an easy victory just to make myself look really stupidly suspicious by killing the only person who voted me and then shouting in the thread that I killed the only person who voted me.

alcasync wrote:But since a lot of the newbies (well, Tiki and drandahl) seem to think that it's anti-town for stunner or jailer to act with no information, I can understand a newbie town being jailer, too!

Well, to be open here, my reasoning also includes that it's better to not block possible investigative or defensive roles on N0 than to block a kill.

And hey, I'll 100% admit to being new here of course. While I'm operating as I can to get up to speed, I'll similarly admit to not having a seasoned knowledge of strategies used by those who have played the game a lot.

Still, in the spirit of driving an investigation, please stop me if there are any improvements you can make in my reasoning.

Also, happy to let my inner rip-off poet fly until I develop my own Wonderland voice...
The outlook wasn’t brilliant for Wonderland that day:
The score stood four to two, with several inning left to play,
When the Rabbit died at first, and the Doormouse did the same,
A pall-like silence fell upon the patrons of the game.

Also, sorry for inserting this a little late. Reading the last couple posts now.