We are all mad here, are we not? OVER Town Win

Death chibi get!
And it's adorable. :D

Been wondering all night how to respond to all of this, since some things are concerning to me. I've resolved to lay all my cards face-up on the table now, since I don't think it will do us any good otherwise.

I'm holding the stunning role, but I didn't stun the following night. I assume that means either Jaiser/Cthm is another stunner (which is unlikely) or they have some ability to copy roles (which is dead frightening).

I stunned Jaiser tonight, Cthm died, and the nk did not go off. If I assume mafia did not deliberately choose to withhold their night kill, then either Jaiser or Cthm were mafia and were stopped before they could use night kill.

Jaiser could have been the one trying to send in the night kill, and my stun of him blocked him taking that action.

Cthm could have been the one trying to send in the night kill. In this case, I still wonder why Jaiser didn't jail me as we described in the plan. It's possible Jaiser is a town who is very wary of plans suggested by other players. However, let's assume for the moment that both of us are town. If we went forward with the plan, then by now we'd have two confirmed innocents and one dead mafia. That's assuming kiyo's ability to kill multiple times, but I certainly didn't hear dissension from her when the plan was announced, and I think we all had suspicion that it could always be more than a one-shot kill ability.

I'm not fool enough to drop the clearer answer... vote: Jaiser, but I'm still holding out some suspicion for you, Kiyo, and so I was concerned about revealing my role. Noting my thoughts on this matter ahead of time in case Jaiser turns out to be innocent (sorry, just playing carefully here!):
1. Still waiting on an answer from you regarding Alca's tactics, Kiyo
2. I still did not know what ability Cthm had -- he could have had some general role investigative ability, (saying "One of these three players have bomb" early on, for example), in which case the two of you needed to play it safe and try to mis-lynch as many players as possible.
3. Your ability to kill multiple times could be the nk in disguise, and you really have some other ability unconsidered so far.
4. At this point to be more vigilant of other key factors, I don't consider a willingness to engage in discussion as strong evidence of town.

I'm also naturally holding out a small reserve of suspicion for alca, but I don't have any alarming notes to share that aren't obvious at this point.

* I'm holding the stunning role. I stunned Tiki the first night but I didn't stun the following night.

drandahl didn't stun Cthuluhoop? Okay. That makes a lot of sense then. I have in my notes that drandahl is either mafia stunner or town jailer, and the only thing holding me back was the stun on Cthuluhoop.

vote: drandahl because he is mafia.

Kiyoko, how much do you trust me? Because I'm now 100% sure that drandahl is mafia and I think you should change your vote!

Can you explain some of why you're so certain? I'm getting very tired of feeling strung-along with little agency here.

drandahl wrote:
I'm holding the stunning role, but I didn't stun the following night. I assume that means either Jaiser/Cthm is another stunner (which is unlikely) or they have some ability to copy roles (which is dead frightening).

Why is it unlikely? There've been three stun descriptors so far. A crack from behind, magical snoring, and someone getting yanked aside and hidden, which I guess is the jailor. And aren't these things based off RNGs anyway? Kiyo's been consistently described as a glowing sword, which means there's some continuity in the description posts, correct? Which means whoever is "snore" stun hasn't acted more than once, or is someone who was blocked.

And has some explaining to do on how they pull that off. Snoring usually makes me killcrazy IRL.

THough...can someone please explain to me why the likely number of roles in any way incriminates me? I'm really getting lost here and it's honestly very frustrating.

I just woke up, holy crap.

Having three stunners (or well, two stunners and a jail) changes everything.

I suppose we could look at the WIFOM of "why would drandahl say something that's so incredibly incriminating" but I'm going to chalk that up to, he didn't know our actual reasons for voting Jaiser, tried to be honest to look more pro-town, and messed up, because having three stunners makes so much sense that I'm more willing to believe it's true than not, and everything now falls into place.

Things that made drandahl look innocent

• The stun on Cthuluhoop
  

Things that made Jaiser look innocent

• The fact that he is jailer
  

Things that made drandahl look suspicious

• All of his posts on pages 8 and 9 where he basically outright said that stunner was mafia, which would be very strange for a town stunner to do.
  
• The alleged fact that he didn't actually stun Cthuluhoop.
  
• The alleged fact that there's another stunner, who must be town, and as our town stunner quota is now filled, that leaves drandahl as mafia stunner.
  

Things that made Jaiser look suspicious

• The fact that there seemed to only be one stun and one jail, they probably weren't both town, and the stunner acted in the more pro-town way which by process of elimination means the jailer's more likely to be mafia.
  

Things that make alca look ridiculously town

• How completely on point she's been this entire game, including the "reaction" vote on Cthulumints on D1. Not counting the vote on Mr. Alice which, I presume, was to save me. Bravo, seriously.
  

unvote: Jaiser
vote: drandahl

Jaiser wrote:Can you explain some of why you're so certain?

Kiyoko explained her reasoning above.

My reasoning? I dunno! Maybe it's logic. Maybe it's gut feeling. Maybe it's just because I'm the main character, and I have been busy behind the scenes. nvn

drandahl wrote:so I was concerned about revealing my role

Well. Judging from conversations in-thread, I've known both your and Jaiser's roles since last night, and alca's known at least since D2.

If you want to know my thoughts on alca's plan? I think she is the only person in thread who is fully aware of everyone's abilities, and is in the best position to coordinate night actions without actually revealing too much to the mafia. She claims that she can still do the plan. I think the plan relies on mafia not knowing the plan. I have a hunch what the plan entails, and therefore I will not say anything about the plan.

alcasync wrote:Maybe it's just because I'm the main character, and I have been busy behind the scenes. nvn

Hello, Alice.

Vote: Drandahl

Because the wind's shifted and I don't mind adjusting my sails away from my own appointment with the hangman.

Yeah, I expected that was why you always wrote like you were uncertain and confused, even when it was apparent you knew what you were talking about. Heh.

Referring to Alca, so everyone knows, heh.

Oh... I-I always talk this way! Though I guess that means I just chose a really fitting role for myself. nvn

Wait, hold on, guys!

If I were mafia, the only thing I would need to do is not shift votes from Jaiser. If i didn't know your reasoning, I could have just tapped out and said so, or gave my own reasoning, or even stayed quiet. Then I could have stunned Kiyo, sent in a night kill for either player, and that would be game.

Or taking that a step back, why the heck wouldn't I just night kill last night? True, it could have been Cthm who made that attempt, but really he was the main point of suspicion, so that would probably have been a bad move on mafia's part. Granted, since Jaiser and I were expected to target each other, you could also say that mafia didn't have much of a choice. So I guess I'm not proven innocent here.

I completely recognize that admitting what I did removes my innocence, but this is really the only time I can do that! I thought it would have been clear that there's something odd about the N1 stun, which may want us to be careful late-game. I'll admit to thinking three stunning-esque roles in a game of 8 seemed high, though clearly I need to realize I have no prior experience with this game. Really, it was more concerning to me that the other stunner has been quiet otherwise and unaccounted for. And I felt like it was very important to town to provide that information before we made a possible mistake with Jaiser, because you really wouldn't believe me then.

I've also been suspicious of Cthm, though I recognize you could just explain that away as me wanting to not look paired up. Also, I suppose I've expressed suspicion of most a few other players...

Go ahead and interrogate me here. I really haven't done anything wrong, other than stun a poor Tiki early on.

Tiki was the town stunner. You're a stunner, so you must be the mafia stunner. You couldn't send in the kill because there was no guarantee that Jaiser wouldn't jail you first, and you had zero idea that Kiyoko could cancel your night kill by killing Cthuluhoop. You made a mistake by admitting that there was a town stunner, and now you are backpedaling.

Besides, even if you are town, my plan works best if the jailer is left alive, so either you're mafia and we win, or you're town and Jaiser is mafia and I can do my plan. nvn

Wait, I'm confused by part of your reasoning here.
If Tiki were stunner, how did they stun the night after being killed?

Also...
"and you had zero idea that Kiyoko could cancel your night kill by killing Cthuluhoop."
Oh wait, this is true. I thought when I revealed my information that I was making a very clearly pro-town choice, and my defense around last night was pinned on afterwords. My commentary saying my actions today are very stupid if I were someone of mafia are still standing, and I stick by that.

drandahl wrote:My commentary saying my actions today are very stupid if I were someone of mafia are still standing, and I stick by that.

That doesn't mean you're not mafia. No offense!

We seem to be going by time priority here judging by Kiyoko's killblock, so I'm guessing Tiki sent in the stun before the kill was sent in.