Gakuen Mafia EP04-EP08 [ENG SUB]

It could be Kiku was chosen by a vote swapper but ohgeez, grlkrglkgk.

But why this. This is a big headache. 'sobs

ninjas everywhere

Aistaraina wrote:

Tiki The Troll wrote:But huh...am I missing something? People are talking about Kiku changing his vote, but even looking back now, I don't see  it? Damn, i wouldn't have voted for myself if I knew I'd gotten in a tie, I thought I was still one vote short.

From what I can tell, kiku didn't even vote.  Their vote appeared during rollover.

Ah...
...
Okay...I'm actually not sure if that makes me suspect him, though. If I got lynched, that'd be too obvious a tell once I flipped Town. Makes me eye Alice even more though (for whatever my opinion is worth at this point).

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THIS THREAD

IS TOO MUCH

okay not really but tiki is 100% maf now right? like whoever changed the vote obviously knew that they were specifically saving tiki from his role so yes can someone please shoot tiki in the face thx

The thing I don't like is that if Tiki is actually town, it's incredibly costly for us to test the veracity of his role claim via lynching.

For example, we would have to then tomorrow stage a lynch vote such that he's the one with the second most votes, which means we risk mafia just sneaking in on a bandwagon. Or, alternatively, we make him be the main lynch target... which, if he's town, wouldn't kill him, and suffers the same bandwagoning problem.

So this situation leaves us with either lose a town or waste a lynch phase. EEEEEEH.

Further, we don't have a single universally 100% confirmed town that can maybe somehow investigate Tiki and prove to all of us that he's actually town.

I just don't know what to think of this development or how we can even process it. And it's such a weird sounding role.

@ Kiku-Alice-Tiki alliance

Ehh. I'm not sure. Because now we saw Kiku's vote directly in rollover, so that's either a mafia "sneaking in" (why be so obvious?) or mafia manipulating a town (makes more sense?). The impetus to do this would be if Alice was mafia and guaranteed to die. They manipulated the vote onto Kiku, which ties Alice and Tiki, unaware to anyone else. If Tiki was also mafia, why use his lynchproof to block a kill on Alice? Since town is now guaranteed to want to kill one or both of them, and thus you might as well cut your losses and just let Alice take the fall.

But now if you're using Tiki to absorb the lynch on Alice, that means you either wasted his only lynchproof or guaranteed that town will try and shoot him at some point or other, if they're able, to negate his role... if he's being truthful.

If Tiki is telling the truth, that might make sense for him to vote for himself from a town perspective. But... do we believe his claim? It's so hard to test.

Then there's the Kiku vote. Kiku, are you able to say anything at all? If Kiku's vote was manipulated, that would suggest that mafia tried to protect AliceofOz? I guess I'm wondering what they gain from doing that other than maybe letting her live another phase if she's mafia, which isn't unreasonable.

That said, I'm honestly having trouble finding a reason why mafia would frame Alice if they could've just let her get lynched, anyway, unless... oh boy, unless Tiki is actually mafia and is telling the truth, and thus they needed him to live.

I still find the case against Alice rather weak, and I really want to see if we can prove if she's town because her role is powerful if her claim to me is accurate.

tl;dr: I don't think both Tiki and Alice can be mafia. That's... probably just dumb? It's likely one or the other.

I said earlier that Alice claimed to me that she stunned Kotakia N0. Does anyone counter this?

I don't know what to think of the Kiku vote swap.

If we want to have vig target Tiki or Alice, then if jailer is town, jailer should probably avoid jailing them. Just saying. (Stunning is fair game though, especially because it seems like Alice has an active ability?)

@ninja Luxaria: You just said yourself that you think Alice's role is useful. If she's a jack-of-all-trades like you/she claims, then it's a useful role as both town and mafia. This to me feels like a stall tactic. Yes, saving her this way makes her now blatantly scummy, but it also gives her one more night phase to use whatever important abilities she might have.

ftr I don't particularly suspect Lux, she kind of has a habit of defending Alice to the death no matter what alignment either of them are.

SORRY I'M LIKE NYOOMING EVERYWHERE RIGHT NOW.

@Tiki: If you were to come in 2nd place on the lynch then would you AND AoZ get lynched out or would AoZ be saved by the lynch because of you?

The time for frivolous guessing has passed. It's time to crack some heads.

((Alright. Let me parse the current events.

since I think nautilus said I'm also fairly suspicious to her? She used "you" vaguely, but I think it was directed at me

If this is referring to my ominous "You" from a couple pages ago, that was actually directed at Plot, unless you can dredge up a specific instance that I can clarify for you?

Regardless, I feel like I should pretty much admit it: I initially had a very light suspicion of you because when I voted on Alice the day prior, you were the one who did the most explanation of what she meant to say, and I took that as slight buddying? The issue is that you tend to trend fairly close towards Alice in most games regardless of alignment, so I didn't know how to take it and so I had some concerns about you.

On Alice's Action and Role

On one hand, I'm inclined to agree with eleni that a jack of all trades is exceptionally hard to prove. That being said, the role can be either town or mafia, honestly. I'm going to add examples to my posts so that people who aren't familiar with these roles have an idea of what they look like.

Normally a jack of all trades has four staple abilities: one investigation, one kill, one stun, one protection. An example of a Jack of All Trades I guess would be the goddamn dictionary, which Lucas (high seraph) would recognize, though his role powers were originally hidden from him:



The role has also been mafia (for example, I've seen one role which was basically the ability to "copy" the power of other roles in the mafia) so it's really not a role that's inclined towards one alignment or the other. However, there are two things that bother me about what Lux has stated about Alice's claim.

First off, the original subset of powers:

From what I understand, AliceofOz suggested to me that she is a jack-of-all-trades with doctor, jailer, and stunner (that she claims to have used on Kotakia N0) in her selection, as well as some others she hasn't disclosed to me yet.

I... okay, so, I'm going to jump the shark slightly here.

My initial gut feeling was some confusion, because normally jack of all trades have one investigation ability that they can use from my experience, but this is a limbo game anyways and for all I know there could be a role that turns people into pink elephants.

In addition, Alice was willing to inform you she was a doctor, but not admit to any investigative roles.

For the record, though this may be late. She verified to me that her doctor is multiple-use, so that may be possible to test, presuming she happened to catch kill attempts multiple times. Which is... again, awkward given all of the variables. Her stunner and jailer are also multiple use.

If her abilities are multiple-use, then this makes me doubt the veracity of this claim.

If there are no limits to which of these abilities are used (for example: in the above example, Lucas didn't know what his abilities were prior to using them, and he also couldn't use them twice in a row - other variations of the role have each ability as a single shot), then this makes this role essentially a more flexible version of other town roles like doctor, detective, stunner, jailer, etc., because you have a variety of abilities to choose from that you can use at leisure without having to deal with limitations.

This seems slightly implausible to me, but once again: purple pink elephants could be a goddamn role, though I don't think alcasync is that cruel.

edit: I'm also positive one of the mafia roles in the game with Gilgamesh aka mafia JOAT was a maf doctor))

Tiki the Troll wrote:I had it on good authority that if I came in second that phase, I'd be out of the game. So I made sure it tied so that I increased my chances of staying in.

Tiki the Troll wrote:So, that in mind: I am lynchproof...forever...

...Unless I'm voted with the 2nd most votes (includes a tie for 2nd). In that case, not only would Alice have been given detention, but Tiki as well. While I still would have voted Alice (and I actually misunderstood a bit of my role, and I thought in a tie the other person lost the coin flip no mater what)

Tiki the Troll wrote:Damn, I wouldn't have voted for myself if I knew I'd gotten in a tie, I thought I was still one vote short."

These are in chronological order. So you say that you tied the vote to increase your chances of staying in by you being chosen over Alice, I think?

Then you state that if you win a tie, presumably (?), you would retain your lynchproof, as otherwise coming out the non-lynch in a tie would ironically kill you anyway. But in the next line you then say that you thought the other person of the tie would automatically lose the coin flip, meaning you would be guaranteed to survive since you would be the lynch target. However, you state that you misunderstood your role and that you assumed you would automatically win a tie? So you don't know, or you later found out it's still 50/50 and if you aren't lynched in a tie, then you get sent to detention anyway?

But then in the next quote you said you wouldn't have voted for yourself if you knew there was a tie. But at the time of posting, you seemed to think you'd automatically win a tie vote and thus not be lynched?

Am I misreading something or viewing this in the wrong light? Because these statements seem to change in your intention and understanding of your role. Since your first post says you wanted to increase your chances of living, but your next post says at the time you thought you would be guaranteed to live, rather than having a chance at it--but you also concede you misunderstood your role. And then later you say you wouldn't have voted for yourself, despite previously thinking you would only have a chance at living during a tie... whereas voting for yourself would further increase your chances of living, since then it could break a tie and make it guaranteed.

Or...

what the hell even is this role this makes no sense to me.

OK I'M HERE holy shit what is going on

I indeed never voted, however I was invited into a relationship by T3t last night and accepted. I didn't get any messages stating that I couldn't say anything about the relationship and honestly the way the situation is going I REALLY JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT COULD'VE HAPPENED (either he can control the votes of people he's in a relationship with or there's a mafia role out there that can target someone and change their vote, because I certainly didn't??)

Host announcement

Please refrain from posting or sending in actions until I say it's okay to, thank you! ;v;

Kotakia was stunned.
Kotakia was targeted for a kill detention, but it failed!

Okay you can post now.

We would both be lynched. And since I'm Town (believe it or not, then the best case scenario is we lose a Town and a Maf, worst case, lose two Town.

And with that possibility, that's why I was afraid of revealing that info to Town and Maf.

Also, I have no ability to waste (unless relationship messages are affected by stuns, as I hope to establish a new one tonight). So, I'm all for being the stun target.

@Lux Oh, no, no, that's only if I'm tied for 2nd that I get detention. In this case, i was tied for first...
...or at least, I thought I was. The bit I mentioned about misunderstanding was stated before I even realized Kiku's vote changed. At the time I thought I had tied with Alice, and that Alice should have gotten detention. I had no yet realized that I had somehow ended up with the most votes.

Post pause: Huh. Day phase. Neat.

Vote: AliceofOz

are you kidding me

nautilus wrote:In addition, Alice was willing to inform you she was a doctor, but not admit to any investigative roles.

She informed me of this because she said she protected me on N1. She also previously implied that her role has limits on how she could use it, and she did hint an investigative role, but either I was unable to guess it or she did not confirm it just yet, which is why I left it unsaid. For the record, we communicated via me sending her a code to apply to her first post of D2 with me guessing how her role worked, and she included the code in her responses. Thus, the only information I have is:


1. Multiple-use, but limited
2. Jailer, Stunner, Doctor
3. Stunned Kotakia N0, protected me N1.
4. There's an investigative role in there, but her silence indicates it's neither cop, tracker, or watcher.

But that's all I have. I cannot guarantee any of this via relationship effects, nor can I vouch for her alignment. I also imagine at this point it would be better for her to speak up in her own defense.

@ T3tsuya:

Would you be willing to confirm if people in a relationship with you also have to follow your votes? Because if it wasn't you, then it might've been Kiku being manipulated by a mafia. As far as I know, you only have Kiku under your banner, since I think Kotakia is with someone new now?

And I--

What just happened