Welcome to Katabasis Station, Work Shift 4

WELL FUCK. seriously guys, what is the point of planning to stick together to stop conversions if you don't follow the plan...

first I'd like to say that I didn't deviate from the plan and went to med bay (as always).

I derped out, nvm:

re: med bay vote, while I see the point of clearing another potential planner, I think with the current ratio we'd be better off looking for maf instead and probing people that we're unsure about. gonna think about it more, but I'd be most for med bay-ing someone out of dran/kiyo/rasei/alca, in that order.

going to go and lynch vote: aeiou sorry vowels, but by process of elimination for the N0 convert I still think you're the most likely one.

I'd be fine being investigated, and the reasoning of "dran has key" makes sense. That said, I feel like I've been open since D1 about my actions and intentions. Again, I'm perfectly fine being investigated, though I feel like there's better use of the role elsewhere.

Darn, I left my notes on my other computer. Which is atypical, since I normally keep them in my synced notetaking application.

vote alignment: Ezz Though I'd feel comfortable going with Kiyo, Rasei, or Alca as well. No real awful choice here, so I hope we'll see full voting participation. Also, let's treat this with as much information-gaining potential as a lynch.)
vote lynch: Tiki, to keep things interesting for now.


EDIT: Also, probably won't be on again until noonish PST.

Unofficial vote tallies... Let me know if anything's off.

...med bay ship task (Aligment Reveal)

✧ Rasei: Rasei
✧ Aeiou: Dran
✧ Dran: Ezz
✧ Lux: Ezz
✧ Alca: Ezz
✧ Tiki: Naut

Rasei: I
Dran: I
Ezz: III
Naut: I

...lynch target

✧ Rasei: Aeiou
✧ Alca: Aeiou
✧ Aeiou: Rasei
✧ Ezz: Aeiou
✧ Dran: Tiki


Aeiou: III
Rasei: I
Tiki: I

I'm going to hold off voting until later but I really appreciate your posts, Rasei & Aeiou for what it's worth o/ I'm busy at the mo' but will come back later with possible spec

Belated comment: I would vote for Med Bay now to see how later votes work, but I'm assuming I can auto-break any ties that I create with my vote (unless I vote break in private or something idk, I'm assuming I can just break ties automatically)

Actually how does this part of the armory work:

Players may vote for no one to have a double vote.

Sigh...

I'd more predict someone from Engineering to wander off last night than someone in the Med Bay. The safety net of 2 players not being there would make them feel comfortable. Two suspicious players were in Med Bay. The only risk would obviously be if both mafia were in Engineering and left as well, and then the game ends.

But also. There are several variations on people who wouldn't follow a plan.

There's Rasei, who apparently by her own admission dislikes following plans.

There's the type that would weigh risk versus reward and take the chance to try and counter mafia in some way.

And then there's the type that dislikes winning purely off mechanics and would rather head off and do their own thing.

I can see Kiyoko and maybe Mitsu fitting the build of the latter two, though I know less of Mitsu, and given her personality I'm less likely to think she would be okay with the burden of If Something Goes Wrong. alcasync is another that might just do her own thing, but I know less of alca. Same goes for ezz.

But we have no idea what kind of players mafia are targeting since all we've seen is Ninfia get hit, so.

First convert was probably in Mitsu, Kiyoko, alcasync, Lucas, Rasei, drandahl. Second convert is probably in Kiyoko, Mitsu, alcasync, maybe Rasei.

Other thoughts:

1. drandahl having a key means literally nothing so stop focusing on it. The mechanics of this game means town will never have roles, basically, so the only time the key matters is for EVA, which everyone will notice due to mechanics.

2. Not sure how I feel about people routinely thinking I'm lying about the Brig. There are ways to publicly show which roles are active. Please inform me how it makes sense to lie about having a role early in the game when I don't have it, and then it could blow up in my face and get town to lynch me. Makes no sense. My entire strategy was planned on N0 to last until N2 solely because I was going for the biomonitor and I was going to set myself in position to be Med Bay'd, while making use of my role to thwart mafia. All of these things happened. I would not jeopardize town's chances by wandering off if I could be converted.

Unlike, you know, somebody.

So if anyone continues to suggest that, I'm lynching you right then and there.

3. These game mechanics are incredibly swingy and in base form heavily, heavily favor mafia. The fact that the Laboratory was destroyed for [reasons] means town is basically guaranteed to lose at this point unless we lynch a mafia today. Whereas if town stuck to the plan after accruing advantages, mafia wouldn't win under any circumstance. Sooo. /shrug

This is kind of why I suspect collusion may have happened because mafia just happening to target the one player that ventured off on a night where it was critical both rooms went off? That really sounds like someone having pity on mafia getting locked out of the game. I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case. Maybe this is also wishful thinking because I'm just still really astounded at what happened last night.

By the way.

We are not using Med Bay on anyone other than Mitsu or ezz this phase. I'm also not opposed to lynching anyone from the pool of:

Rasei, Kiyoko, alcasync, drandahl. Aeiou might go in this list given the situation with Lucas, but something tells me they may be town. I'm honestly more likely to pick the convert as claiming being in the Cargo Hold N0, or drandahl, the self-professed alone. But uh, lynching Aeiou might still reveal something.

Med Bay: ezzelin

Thinking on the vote for incineration. It's going to be one of the four or five names I just listed.

If anyone deviates from those names, I'm going to assume you're mafia, full disclosure.

I don't necessarily think that Kiyoko, at least, would attempt to be a solo yolo hero and run out of engineering; going from what I know about her mafia playing personality, I strongly doubt that she would attempt to do so. I feel like if there were weird mechanics, Kiyoko might bring it up maybe to the host, but not to the point where she'd risk breaking apart from a mutually assured plan in-thread.

I admit I do know significantly less about alcasync than Kiyoko, though, for what it's worth... I know for sure though she definitely was in the cargo hold N0 unless she's going through the motions of lying.

I don't mind being Med Bay'd; perhaps it's for the best to eliminate myself from being the convert on both nights, and to ensure that this armory is in the right hands, haha.

1. drandahl having a key means literally nothing so stop focusing on it. The mechanics of this game means town will never have roles, basically, so the only time the key matters is for EVA, which everyone will notice due to mechanics.

re: the drandahl thing -- I'M NOT BRINGING UP THE KEY but

The fact that alca specifically brought up the fact that drandahl should be kept alive regardless of his actual alignment because he's most willing to go into the EVA is the "off" thing that I thought about yesterday, but I can't really place my finger on why it feels kind of weird, it just does. I don't know if I'm just feeling weird since I've had weird feelings about alca this entire game, but. It just felt like a really weird and random out of place piece of spec

e: fwiw given that i've played significantly more games with ezz -- i also don't think she'd do that if there was a plan in-place

It'd make more sense to Med Bay you than ezz, given your greater possibility for being the convert. The only reason I'm hesitant is because I felt mostly comfortable giving you a town read last phase (in my wall of text), and I... sincerely, truly, really, absolutely do hope you wouldn't venture off last night.

Then again, if we end up lynching alcasync, maybe we should also Med Bay you just to cover that, given how you two have been linked all game.

Edit: I actually wouldn't think ezz would deviate, from what I know of her. I think there's actually a reasonable chance she's an original mafia, which is why if she's not I'd like to just... have that clear out on the table for my own peace of mind.

I know there have been a few comments about how I'm not as aggressive or less active which is usually an indicator of me being mafia. I am actually not going to defend against that because I have a lot of personal reasons why I just can't be as invested in this forum as I have been in the past. These are entirely out of game reasons that the admins already know about. I wasn't actually going to sign up for this game except that Kiyoko asked me to.

Regarding the drandahl comment, I actually forgot about items being redistributed after people are lynched, and I thought that would mean that we would lose the masterkey. For what it is worth! I do think it's probably worth investigating drandahl and then having him do the space walk, not necessarily this phase but in general, unless we're confident that mafia will be willing to do so, and umm, I'm not really confident that mafia would be willing to do so.

I understand Luxaria's frustrations but the overly aggressive tone of her post just really kind of rub me the wrong way. The way she's willing to make a list based off "I think this person would or wouldn't do something" despite self-admittedly not knowing people well enough to know if they would actually do that, and then saying "Anyone who deviates from this list is mafia." Because I am not the kind of person who would deliberately play anti-town, I would like to think that the other players in this thread would not deliberately play anti-town, and I am kind of upset by the tone of her post in general.

vote med bay: ezzelin

Alright, so after being kept awake till 5 am, let's say things.

Dran...D=
Admittedly, I've kept you one my scum list since the start, so fair enough...but given the potential MYLO, I don't think now's the time to do stuff "to keep it interesting." That's the sort of thing I've seen go terribly wrong before, like in Vanilla: It's Good For You! While it was fun to watch that clusterfuck as a host, I'd rather not be part of that as a player, heh.

Well, the med bay votes are going Ezz's way...but now we have a tie-breaker, so a tie shouldn't be a problem. And speaking of, I'd really like to know if Crew can trust our appointed tie breaker.

Med Bay Vote: Nautilus

I'm still leaning toward Vowels for the lynch vote, esp. since I'm now on the board (I'd like to gain a bit more distance, heh), but some interesting points have been brought up...

Well, I have no work today, so, hmm...anybody else wanna chime in? (Actually looking at it, I think only overworked Kiyo hasn't said much).

Oh, and in defense of Lux, that seems pretty in character of her. She's not an angry or aggressive sort, but I know she can get frustrated by the the game at times.

In that regard, I know you're not a hugger Lux, but...*hug*

1. You know I cannot be mafia. This has been established. I don't care if my posts have the wrong tone because I am making no attempts to dress my posts up this game given my established alignment. Considering town has lost for months and months because we never commit to planning out coordination--when this coordination finally happens and someone doesn't follow it and gets converted? I'm pretty salty. Not taking it out on people, but I'm just. Really disappointed, and this game is another example of why I stopped getting invested after Gakuen S1.

2. I also pointed out prior to the other points that my convert reads were going to focus on the people in Engineering due to numbers. That leaves Mitsu, Kiyoko, alcasync, drandahl, and Tiki.

Which of those five are most likely to get hit with a NK? The first three, statistically. From playing with Tiki and drandahl, I actually... typically expect them to follow a plan. They usually want to coordinate, though some of these games has been from a maf!drandahl trying his best to look town, which is why I'm not writing him out.

But also, consider: People already suspect Tiki. There's some lingering suspicions/thoughts on drandahl. When you expect the contamination to be a NK given the setup of the thread, why would you knock them out when town might spend a phase or two lynching or Med Baying these targets? It makes more sense to go for the "probably town" people, because they're not due to get any speculation.

Thus, that leaves Mitsu, Kiyoko, and yourself.

I also pointed out it's possible someone in the Med Bay left. Maf didn't convert me. I cannot be converted. Unless you still think I am lying.

Maf isn't going to go for Rasei or Aeiou, if they're town. Most of town were talking of lynching both of them or had scum reads. So that leaves ezzelin, who is my Med Bay target.

The only exceptions come down to:

1. Maf did actually target someone we wouldn't expect so as to leave someone like Kiyoko or Mitsu alive so as to make other players question their continued presence in the game.

2. Maf wanted to try and grab someone like Rasei or Tiki onto their team so when they got lynched, town would think they had found an original mafia instead of a convert.

3. Random targeting and dumb luck.

If there's another scenario, I'll listen to it, though. This is just how I'm reading it.

I apologize if I sound off or harsh, but it is just very frustrating to return to mafia a few months ago with a more laid-back playstyle, watch town lose game after game because there just isn't a concentrated effort, and spend each post-game wondering if I should have just put more into it. So after the last minigame--in which mostly every town had clear reads on the mafia--I went into this game, saw an opportunity, saw everyone saying, "Hey let's coordinate rooms!" but no one was actually doing it, and so I took the initiative to organize the thread, accrue a massive lead for town (Rasei may have been the first vote, but I said I wanted to vote Lucas, and I also created a situation in which we knew there was a mafia in the Med Bay N1, on top of blocking the Cargo Hold), and then felt content that we, as a team, had put town in a position where for once we wouldn't have a game thinking, "damn, if only we actually coordinated this time! rats. Maybe next game?"

And then that just got blown apart last night.

Do note I'm not necessarily saying someone did intentionally play anti-town. I highlighted that it was a risk/reward. Someone in Engineering, for example, might have seen a good opportunity to try and grab something for town's side. I get it. It makes sense from a certain point of view, especially if you expect me to be the NK. So I'm not necessarily mad or upset at whoever got converted, so much as I'm just... emotionally dead inside now.

The conversion is just so snowbally. If we lynch town, we're at 5:3. We basically can't split again for the rest of the game, but as is evidenced last night, planning is just... questionable? And I guess not fun or enjoyable, since it's everyone getting told what to do, rather than playing the game. But town is punished and will lose if anyone tries to play the game or be clever, so this is where we're at.

Also, @ Tiki

Using the Med Bay as a tie to test Mitsu doesn't make much sense to me.

If she's town, she'd use it to check ezz.
If she's mafia, she'd use it to check ezz.

Maybe if she's town she'd use it on herself, just to prove her alignment.

@ Mitsu

What would you even do in a hypothetical tie situation?

Fair enough: Kiyoko did also extend a similar request to me, and I'm not going to press you too hard on that point given the facts. o/

My two cents on the situation: I don't think, knowing how Kiyoko plays and from my memories of how ezz plays, especially since she was mafia in one of the last games I played with her (the one with the investijailer, if you're wondering, ezz), either of them would specifically remove themselves from a plan in this way or feel the need to break away from a plan because winning via mechanics isn't for them. So if we're going to look at Lux's comment earlier:

There's Rasei, who apparently by her own admission dislikes following plans.

There's the type that would weigh risk versus reward and take the chance to try and counter mafia in some way.

And then there's the type that dislikes winning purely off mechanics and would rather head off and do their own thing.

While I don't know about 2 (though in Kiyoko's case I strongly argue against her doing #2 for reasons pertaining to her style of play), I strongly believe ezz and Kiyoko would not do #3. If anything, this might fill in the gaps.

@Lux - Honestly I don't know, but I'm actually strongly considering if it's a tossup between myself and ezz to clear myself, which narrows down the field for the potential converts on both nights and also gives the game as a whole a reason to trust me with the armory (a new!clear with an actual power, that is).

I'm town and a fairly decent proportion of the thread believes I am towny but if it makes the thread sleep better at night about my alignment I'll probably end up clearing myself

If it's a tie between Not!Myself and Not!ezz, then it depends on who's up for vote.

I'll be gone from the thread for a while because I have to run some errands, but I'll be back later!

Luxaria wrote:Also, @ Tiki

Using the Med Bay as a tie to test Mitsu doesn't make much sense to me.

If she's town, she'd use it to check ezz.
If she's mafia, she'd use it to check ezz.

Maybe if she's town she'd use it on herself, just to prove her alignment.

@ Mitsu

What would you even do in a hypothetical tie situation?

Oh, no, no, you misunderstood (sorry!). I just meant it's no longer a big deal if there's a tie, since we have someone who can break ties now. Because before a tie just meant a failed action, right? And like Nautie just said, I just kinda feel like it'd be valuable to know we can trust our tie breaker as a sure-thing cleared crew, for future tasks we end up voting on.

Just wish we had the protect to keep her safe (assuming she shows up as cleared). >.<

I'm.

I'm seriously considering unvoting and changing to dran because the whole "to keep things interesting" at this point in game really rubs me the wrong way. I've been thinking about it like in the back of my mind while doing housework and it just keeps bugging me so much.

also pushing nautsu in a spot to tiebreak between themselves and me doesn't really?? say anything on whether we can trust them or not?? if anything, their reply to the hypothetical situation makes me believe more firmly that they're town.clarified by tiki, nvm

(also @nautsu, I don't... think I remember investijailer?? p sure the last game I was maf in was like three years ago when I replaced someone in harvest moon maf back of vdex-- )

Wasn't it the one where you were the baker (and your role was centered around b...aking for people and having chats with them and learning their roles) and chi was the falconer and she kept being redirected to herself? Or am I misremembering?

Also hello I am back and not much has changed. I'm really interested in where drandahl is because he said he'd be back by noon PST, which I have learned is the middle of the afternoon I am hungry why is everyone eating lunch time for me, but maybe he's busy... ?