Cardcaptor Sakura Mafia [Day Four]

Depends on the role in question and how much the host has forsaken us to a new mafia hell.

In all probability, he is probably a one-off lynchproof (or killproof, meaning either lynchproof or bulletproof).

Sometimes you might see someone that has multiple lynchproofs or killproofs, or can acquire more by achieving certain conditions in the game.

Other times are as limited as the host is creative, and though I've only seen crywolf games, undoubtedly there's been roles before (vdex or otherwise) where Player A cannot be lynched until, for example, Player B is lynched.

If Tiki is mafia, which seems likely/probable at the moment, mafia might also have other ways to prevent a lynch. See Literary Mafia 2.0 in which plotstickers refused to die for phase after phase.

Short answer: We have no way of knowing, but he's probably one-off lynchproof judging by how Ninfia seems to have balanced the game.

Edit: Vdex = the previous mafia forum most of the players here once played on, Ninfia included.

Bulletproof = protected from a killing effect, but not a lynch.

If you want to get a feel for what roles might exist in a forum mafia setup, this is a pretty exhaustive list that covers most basics.**

If you have other questions I can try to help. I don't know if you've necessarily played mafia before, much less forum mafia, though word on the street is you're familiar with a variant of it?

(** I don't know of any item roles in this listing to compare the items in this game to, though I could stand to check more thoroughly, so re: Mitsu whenever you return, I am kind of curious where the knowledge of items comes from that ezz mentioned. I just assumed they were more prominent on vdex and took her word for it. Though I guess ezz will probably comment on that at some point in response to you, maybe, idk.)

I have actually been a permanently lychproof role before (this is also the only instance of a perma lynchproof role I can think of). However, I was town. I don't think there's ever a permanently lynchproof mafia role (have seen conditionally perma bulletproof mafia roles before though)

I threw an edit in. I'd put it in a new post, but figured it wouldn't make as much sense without directly following the rest of what I said.

TIKI WHY

I really hope he won't wind up being Plot 2.0 from Lit maf 2 or something... That's the very first thought that came to mind more or less, klgrklgrlr.

I also can't see the Dash being a stunner. It feels out of place, kind of.

My role power suits The Fly pretty well all in all, as have the other role abilities that we know of suiting their cards (Plot's and Chi's), so I'm rather leery of the stun claim.

*emerges from the dead*

Jfc I really did not realize how bad the internet would've been at the island I was staying at the last couple of days. My apologies :( Proof: I only installed Miitomo literally within the last hour and I would've gotten it as soon as it was available lmao..... And then my phone logged me out of this forum and i forgot my password for a bit

But don't worry. I couldn't have done anything this phase anyway :(

im thinking about doing a thing ,_, but i've got work this morning so im undecided until after my shift is over

dont worry its a Good Thing

edit i have the hiccups and life sucks

Today I saw two ducks while on a morning walk and I am now feeling Up to Post but I will also be gone for most of today anyways.

For reasons that likely pertain to balance, I actually can't kill Tiki right now. I think it's pretty obvious, but all my kills trigger intermissions regardless of whatever phase I use them in, so if I could I already would have.

I am highly suspect of this item and Tiki's "give me a chance", and I'm going to casually remind everyone how many chances lulu was given in S1 to revive players, and if Tiki doesn't deliver we are not keeping him alive long enough to try again.

My speculation on the item role is that it's an ability that generates various one-shot actions (1x gun, 1x stun, etc.,) kind of like Ardonye from Lit Maf only not as consistent, and because of this reason I'd be extremely wary if there are multiple stuns tonight since it's entirely possible one of them could be from this item generating role with the intention of "supporting" Tiki's role claim.

I still think Tiki is mafia because no matter how Tiki wants to slice it, which he intends on slicing it, it is unlikely for town to have a jailer, a Slightly Less Consistent Stunner, and a Regular Dedicated Stunner. Like, the chance that all three are town is 0. Also, literally what are the chances that both people I FOS in one phase are the exact same role!

Even if Five were mafia and Lucas/a second role cop in the mafia that isn't Lucas had investigated him n0, and then Five claimed it to draw his counterclaim, the unnatural delay when it came to his response and how he waited to confirm with the host beforehand reminds me of previous Tiki-claims where he delays his claim before being clear with it, whereas I think in S1 he was just upfront with his ability.

Finally, town!Tiki would know to claim lynchproof if he actually was lynchproof since he has gotten flak for it before as town. If he's town... it's just really frustrating that he wouldn't out his role in its entirety, especially since he was around when I asked him to out his card name and all information about it. Like, if he somehow flips town after all of this I will be disappointed, man.

Sammie just claimed the Fly.

Fun fact no one's pointed out yet: item-generating role has to be one of these players, given that the Quartet of Four lost their powers and yet the item generator was still able to act.

★ The Luxaria
★ The Mr. Alice
★ The Sammiya
★ The Cure
★ The Kiyoko
★ The Tiki the Troll
★ The Five
★ The Katagi
★ The Aeiou
★ The Rasei
★ The Angelstar
★ The Ezzelin

e: @Lux - I have only played one game with an item that wasn't a gun, and it was a bomb that could be passed between players. When the bomb blew up after x number of passes, the resulting explosion appeared as an immediate intermission. This is why I assumed that the item would have been immediate if used, but apparently not.

Zzz I need to go to bed badly. I feel bad for not being around but I was pretty busy today. I also haven't done a single thing so?? Other than the wild amount of page build up and mostly just coming to obvious conclusions I haven't had much to offer ;w;

I do think Tiki is maf though. I feel like there's no way he isn't from the ten thousand things pointed out. And five being stunner I feel like really does clear up the probing and what not done earlier so I'm pretty comfortable to not worry about five atm. I'm going to back up Cure in that I don't think any town actions were able to go through in that stolen night phase so def a mafia role ;0; awful tbqh

Zzz I can't remember if I had anything else floating around in my head or not.

I saw another duck today. For every duck I see today, I'll make a post.

If Tiki is mafia, which seems likely/probable at the moment, mafia might also have other ways to prevent a lynch. See Literary Mafia 2.0 in which plotstickers refused to die for phase after phase.

Rollover flavour is usually pretty clear in this game - the flavour from when I shot Lucas into oblivion is obviously pointed towards my card (The Arrow). Given that rollover flavour said Tiki ran away, him being The Dash thematically makes sense with the card's power, so I'm willing to say that it's his own ability and not someone trying to save Tiki.

To clarify, my confusion came from the fact that an item which caused a kill got rolled into rollover. More often than not in my experience item roles (since thinking back I did host a minigame with items, if that counts) would likely take place at rollover if they're protection/stun/etc., based because it's difficult to calculate action priority if you have an immediate-use protection or something, but anything that involves killing that I've seen has always been immediate.

re: ezz - I understand you don't like claiming or role probing, and I apologize/fully understand if you don't want to comment on what I said, but given that it's highly likely that the item role is tied to a mafia member, I hope you can understand my point of view here!

On the item role thing: I removed players who either I feel like I know the role of (with at least more certainty than ... Five's guess where I was totally off-base) or who've explicitly claimed/had people comment on their roles (myself, Raie/Five/Kiyoko/Rasei and Tiki, conditionally).

★ The Luxaria
★ The Mr. Alice
★ The Sammiya
★ The Katagi
★ The Aeiou
★ The Angelstar
★ The Ezzelin

Therefore, unless anyone is lying about their claims or it's ... Tiki, the item generator is one of these players. We'll likely figure out the identity of other roles that appear in rollover based off what shows and doesn't, since 4 players in this game all lost the ability to act at once. I do think item generator is likely mafia (unless there are multiple item generating roles): if item generator is town and deliberately itemsmithed (that is, the item wasn't RNG'd, but the timing of the item's generation makes an RNG'd target very unlikely) the person who killed Plot, there's absolutely no reason for them not to outright claim who killed Plot immediately because there's zero ambiguity on what alignment would make a calculated shot at an alignment cop claim.

I GUESS, IT'S POSSIBLE, IT'S ALWAYS POSSIBLE TIKI IS TOWN but even in Gakuen S1, where he was town, was forced to claim with Kiyoko threatening someone shooting him in the face, he let on more about his ability immediately than he did here:

Well, I have all those answers to...well, answer from earlier on. But since that may take a while, I'll answer your most pressing concern:

I had it on good authority that if I came in second that phase, I'd be out of the game. So I made sure it tied so that I increased my chances of staying in.

@Tiki - if people have questions to ask you this phase, should they have any, I strongly suggest you answer them to the best of your ability. For what it's worth even though I think you're mafia and this sounds... not the greatest in the long run, I really hope you don't beat yourself up over things in this game. I think people are just... frustrated at the lynchproof and all the stuff that's been going on, and I hope that's understandable.

If you are town (which I don't believe you are), I know you like to do silly things in-thread like vote last minute to create ties on the player that isn't actually up for lynch and stuff, and I'm not faulting you for playing that way in any way. But people by and large will be frustrated if you are lynchproof and don't let on that you are, since even if that clears your ability, it's an ability both mafia and town can have, and it also essentially wastes a lynch for us because you aren't giving us ample time to choose another lynch target that could give us information. Lynchproofs and bulletproofs act in their best interests to protect their uses.

I'll shoot you a question: Why didn't you claim lynchproof when you did your role claim? I had asked you to name your card and everything about it, and you had posted after I asked you, but you never responded to me.

IT ALSO MAKES PERFECT SENSE WITH THAT INFORMATION THAT FIVE WOULD ASK FOR CLARIFICATION FROM THE HOST REGARDING IF BLOCKED KILLS SHOWED UP IN ROLLOVER. there's little to no reason for ANYONE other than a stunner/jailer to ask that when a failed kill showed up with three stuns.

I would disagree with this point but maybe that's because I like to know everything all the time

I'm around for ten minutes until my next meeting is anyone even online

Whether Tiki is capable of stunning or not is entirely beside the point. If Tiki produces a stun tonight, we're not all going to sit back and go, "Oh, I guess he did the N0 stun after all and Five is lying" are we? Tiki is maf, lied about being the one who stunned plot, end of story.

That said, I do in fact believe that mafia has the ability to stun tonight, in case anyone wants to plan around that.

So Lux's post here that's too long to quote in full so I'll just pull out the relevant part, is kind of interesting to me because while she does express concerns about Tiki's alignment, she also seems to be seriously entertaining the idea of letting Tiki "prove himself":

Luxaria wrote:I don't know the best way to go about figuring out a target for Tiki to prove his stun, especially since that arguably tells mafia where a stun is going and how to plan around it. Unless we give a selection of several targets for Tiki... which may not have a mafia in it (in this case, we're basically say saying, "Yeah stun a town")... or if there is a mafia, they can just elect to either stun or not stun that target depending on their needs. I really have no idea how to go about this. (Maybe have both of them try to claim their stun target in the last few seconds before rollover? Idk.)

Again, refer back to my paragraph above. Who cares if Tiki can stun or not? He didn't CC Five's role, he CC'd Five's exact action.

I was going to spend the rest of this post talking about who the silencer/item person/jailer (who I think must be maf at this point because nobody has come forward saying "both jails are town jails") could be, but I'm out of time ttyl

Luxaria wrote:I guess I'll ask you now, Tiki, what exactly are your thoughts on Five? Five, what are your thoughts on Tiki?

Well...my thoughts on this question actually haven't changed since I first saw it last night, but now I feel I can actually answer it without breaking down or anything, heh...

And the answer:

I can't do it.
I can't fight anymore.

I've looked ahead to what this answer would mean, to what multiple stuns in a rollover will show, all of it. And even if somehow all of that added up to people being uncertain between Five and me, a complete, indecisive tie, regardless of our alignments...we both know it'll be me for the "information lynch." The biggest thing I've been trying to fight against.

But there's no changing it. It's been on its way since D1.

That said...sorry everyone. I actually have been wishing there was an alt that could take my place, not wanting to ruin any balance, or screw over others of my alignment. For that, I'm not going to quit, just let things take their course. But I can't post anymore. I don't think I can even look at the thread anymore. And to those of you I've spoken with out of thread, thank you.

Sorry to everyone. I really didn't mean to bring the mood down or be a jerk the whole time.
Especially sorry to my alignment. I tried to be better.
Most of all sorry to our lovely host. Your game is still super cute and clever, and I hope everyone continues to have a great time with it.

Have a lot of fun everyone!

There is a role related reason that I cannot kill Tiki tonight (and it's not because of Rasei's delayed stun, it's something that involves my role) and I'm not letting him live with the intention of proving himself, since I know what letting someone "prove" themselves in a previous mafia game did. They tried to revive players twice, failed to, lied about some invisible stunner, were mafia. This isn't really directed at anyone but Kiyoko brought it up and wow I am still sore over the lulu thing from S1, man. I sacrificed myself for lulu and it did not turn out well

But more importantly...

I'm really sorry if I ended up digging really hard into you in the long run, Tiki. :( I really didn't mean to detract from any fun you might have had in this game, and I hope you're going to feel better soon! Please, take it easy!!! (I don't know if my messages that I wanted to pass onto you through the host actually got to you from last night ;____;) I... god I kind of wish I could end it now for you this phase but I really can't, man.

I... feel bad and I don't want to dig deep into his post because I don't think this is a Ruse or anything even remotely close to that. :( But I will say that the fact that he says "his alignment" vs "town" speaks a lot to what he could be, huh...

I'm on lunch and I have to go back right now BUT

I did the thing... "a little birdie" will know what to do now

I'll explain after work!!

Tiki The Troll wrote:I've looked ahead to what this answer would mean, to what multiple stuns in a rollover will show, all of it. And even if somehow all of that added up to people being uncertain between Five and me, a complete, indecisive tie, regardless of our alignments...we both know it'll be me for the "information lynch." The biggest thing I've been trying to fight against.

I apologize in advance for my tone but between lack of sleep and work I don't really have the mental capacity to police myself here. This is nothing against you specifically.

This paragraph kind of rubs me the wrong way for non-game-related reasons, in that unless I'm misreading it, it seems like you're assuming that you being lynched first is entirely due to some inherent aspect of your personality or our collective relationships with you. That if we lynched you, it'd be a policy lynch "for information."

The facts are as follows: Five claimed the stun on plotstickers. You claimed the stun on plotstickers.

People have pointed out ample evidence from the very beginning of D1 that suggests that Five was the stun on plotstickers, including but not limited to: Five's pressure on plot as being hit by a town stun, Five asking about the mechanics of a stun, Five digging for information in-thread that would affect her interpretation of her stun or her choice in future stun targets.

There is also evidence against you being the stunner, including but not limited to: Your hesitance before claiming, your lack of response to someone else claiming your alleged action, the fact that you did not die from the lynch which is really the most damning thing tbh.

So when it comes to who we're going to lynch, for information or otherwise, obviously we're going to lynch the one who, as all evidence points, is lying.

And this is probably shit we all agree on in thread and nothing I need to reiterate, except that I don't want anyone thinking that this FoS is for personal reasons rather than a direct result of extremely abundant in-thread evidence.

Sorry if I'm entirely misinterpreting the situation. I might be doing this. Also sorry if you've got shit going on irl. I can relate.

I'm out for the rest of the day, see you all next phase.

My role ability is that if I get targeted for a NK or a vig kill my death is delayed for a phase, because while I got hurt I flew away.

I feel for the case of the item generation the most likely card would be The Create, though! Since the role powers seem to follow the theme of the cards (like I fly away after being attacked), how Plot could find out if someone was salty, spicy, or sweet, and how Chi's works.

@Tiki Me voting for you was not personal. At the time I voted, it was between you or Five and Five had just claimed Stunner, so I voted for you instead.