Cardcaptor Sakura Mafia [Day Four]

Blaire is that... A claim or... Just a bee...

E: pagetop deserves this


BLAIRE JUST ROLE CLAIMED BEES
vote:bees

you heard it here first, folks

my card is The Bees, and as for my role? well, it might just have something to do with being made out of metal, swarming, and/or being impervious to harm except for by hammers

here's to hoping that our item maker doesnt't make something thats more than 70% hammers!

im going to be at work and miss rollover today ;~; so doing the obvious now, vote: tiki

For real though before I go to bed
vote: Tiki
still inclined to think mafia but either way the flip will be interesting!
Def willing to trust mitsu and pretty sure Cure is trustworthy. I'd like to trust Lux as well. Leaning more town on Katagi, although the item copy could be a little wifomy but I want to trust tagi! Blaire is blaire but they are shape friend and for now I'm content to let blaire be blaire.

Jeanne hasn't said anything other than role hinting, which was The Little as far as we could tell? The little "can shrink any creature or object, simply by touching them. This also shrinks the victim's ability to use magic." which uhh hmm

Five seems trustworthy, even if Tiki flips town and really was every other night stunner is it far fetched to have two town stunners? uhh I feel like everyone is just a mystery really. It's hard with so many inactives... I hope you guys come back and play! ;^; Also after I said my card was cute and innocent I went to watch the capture part of the anime and omg its not cute or innocent at all lmao its a lil shit...

Blaires, Bees, Burgerville Galactica

Okay so I'm going to probably be out all day today (and by extension tomorrow I'll be afk all day), so I'm going to make this list.

★ The Luxaria

• :|a I... skimmed the giant omnibus post from yesterday but I'm not quite sure how to read Lux; I don't necessarily think she's more or less of a mafia member because she made guarded statements about her role, since she did the same as mafia in S2, though. I know she tends to consider everything and act as devil's advocate regardless of playstyle, but. I dunno.  
  

★ The Mr. Alice

• I... kind of agree with Lux in which I feel jailing Blaire intentionally is a weird tactic for the mafia jail; I know she has a history of Fucking Shit Up for mafia (see: lit maf, masquerade maf, any game where she's a driver) unintentionally so that might be the reason for the mafia jail. If she was bussed no one's actually owned up to bussing her or performing any bussing at all this entire game: for the most part everyone's been pretty straightforward with saying "x was my target and it went through"; I feel like if someone had been bussed and knew about it (or a bus actually affected the outcome of the game), they would've been outright with questioning rollover targets.
  
• As for Blaire herself, idek. idk if my "mafia was trying to see if they could get Plot out" theory holds water after the Five vs Tiki thing, but I did find her vote on Five kind of awkward feeling.  
  

★ The Cure

• Raie's role is something I feel like she wouldn't dare to softclaim as mafia if she was not this role, unless she was certain that she would never get counterclaimed. Furthermore, comments on her claim that line up with information presented in the thread make me think it's way more likely that she's town than mafia, because certain things make absolutely no sense if you consider it from a mafia standpoint.
  

★ The Jeanne

• Softclaimed... and left? Like Adios kind of a weird null inactive read, and I'm not sure what I could connect their role to. Kiyoko cleared them of sending in any active actions, including the NK, N0 though so I'm willing to leave the heat off of them by virtue of them not being the NK sender, silencer, or second jailer which is probably the mafia jailer. Could still be early phase end or something for the same reason as Adios: mafia might be able to send in actions for other maf, but.
  

★ The Nautilus

• It's me!
  

★ The Tiki the Troll

• Listen, if Tiki flips town after all of this I'm going to shoot myself so I can enter the afterlife and see all my friends again.
  
• That being said, if Tiki does flip maf I'm seriously wondering who else is on this mafia team since I feel like the voting intensified very strongly after Tiki claimed Five's action, and I feel like most people who would be maf with him (Lux, Raie, etc.,) would strongly dissuade him from doing so and tell him to be honest. So if he is mafia, I feel like:
  - Mafia was completely afk during the situation, which would have forced his hand into making a rash decision on how to defend himself
  -  He is a strong mafia power role that was desperate to get off the chopping block
  
• If Tiki flips town... Let's get to this bridge and cross it when it comes.
  

★ The Five

• See Raie: their claim makes all of their comments make sense retroactively, and town stunner is a hard role claim for mafia to make because if you are coincidentally jailed and your "stun" goes through or something, it immediately calls into question if you claim. Claiming town stunner, even if there is also a mafia stunner and you are not town stunner yourself also forces the mafia stunner to conform with what could be considered pro-town targets.
  
• The only reservations I have with Five given that Tiki's flip is still in the air other than the general comment at the end of this list is that I find it really weird anyone of any alignment would kill Sammie, and the coincidence that her role ability would be broken by the stun the same night she died is... strange to me.
  
  I can understand the reasoning to stun Sammiya: quiet, made a really out of place role claim, and the only game Five's played with Sammie with roles, to my knowledge was Literary Mafia where she was mafia and also quiet (though sans the out of place role claim). The Sammie kill just really bothers me here.
  

★ The Katagi

• I want to trust Katagi on this one, because I feel like it was obvious that they were referring to me in their posts made last night, and I feel like mafia wouldn't make a scene about lying about giving me a thing and then, Whoops It Didn't Appear!!!
  
• That being said, the main reason why I'm kind of confused by them is because they... have actually claimed they're now vanilla:
  

  my thing is i can copy an ability once per game, so i decided to give a copy of whatever that gun-item was to nautie, but I thought it'd be instant (allowing nautie to use it during n2)... now it's kind of useless
  
  as am i :|c

  
  and it just feels really weird to have a role that's completely dependent on another role (the original item generator, which seems like the only player who can create items spontaneously), as far as I'm aware since I'm really in the dark about all of this and the items don't seem to be a built in mechanic...?
  
  I'm not ruling out that katagi might be withholding other abilities they may have, though so don't quote me on this
  

★ The She-Ra

• Unlike Raie I'm less inclined to think they're mafia because I'm willing to float the idea that they're new and trying.
  
• Their role seems scummy, apparently, and from the way they've worded the statements about it it... seems anti-town? I... am wondering what this ability is because it apparently sounds very similar to Tiki, but the only things that I can think of is that they're a role that impedes actions (like Tiki) or avoids kills/lynches/manipulates the outcome of kills and lynches (like Tiki) and I'm... not sure if I'd call the latter implicitly scummy...
  

★ The Aeiou

• I feel like their level of speculation has changed this game compared to different games but idk... There's some things that they've said that have made me less suspicious of them, but pretty null here.   
  

★ The AdiosBromigo

• Contested the Chi/Lucas thing for a bit and then disappeared from thread entirely. Not sure what to think of them, but I'm super intrigued as to why/how all of that focus somehow shifted to them over the last few phases since Adios was voted on by two people and stunned by Tiki, apparently. I wouldn't rule out mafia making an inactive a thread pariah because they didn't seem to be able to come back and defend themselves, though. They actually haven't logged in on the forum for a few days, but then again it's possible mafia may be able to send in actions for other mafia.
  

★ The Rasei

• neutralalalala
  

★ The Angelstar

• Claimed lie detector, which is a really easy role to fake look at this and has been faked before on this forum several times. However, Gerry backed up her claim that she is The Libra (which is very obviously a lie detector in the series). I feel like if Angel was town and Gerry was maf, especially given that lie detectors ... yeah, um, I feel like Gerry might not have backed up her claim for her card name, but I'm not sure what to think about it.
  
  The fact that her first question was a sanity question reminds me of Lucas bluffing here and saying "he just wanted to test out whether or not his role worked!" but I know given Gerry's responses from S2 this might be a valid concern.
  
• I strongly believe that I should dictate the statement she asks but if anyone disagrees let me know, it's just that I'm in this weird position of being the clearest alive player in this game. I'm willing to reserve judgment on her until we can accurately formulate a statement... because I'd rather not lynch what could be our last cop standing here
  
  I'm actually really curious why the second statement was about Kiyoko because at that point I don't think anyone was really that aggressively suspecting her? For the most part people were of the assumption that she was most likely than not town, and I feel like such a statement would've been better served on another player we know less about? ANGEL IF YOU SEE THIS WHY DID YOU CHECK KIYOKO'S STATEMENT...
  

★ The Ezzelin

• See katagi for thoughts, though they explicitly mentioned the item movement as their ability and it showed in rollover. I... do wish she would've told me when I'd receive the item next, though maybe she did and my extreme sleep deprivation is making me forgetful.
  
• Probably the next mafia night kill, if the mafia is intent on twisting the Literary Mafia knife into my back.
  

★ The Mr. Gerbear

• I... I don't know. He was on an island, and then now he's not, and he also has Miitomo. I have no reads on him and it's been forever since I played with a maf!Gerry.
  

I actually don't trust anyone 100% except for myself, even though some people have exhibited very pro-town speculation so far and made some very difficult-to-avoid role claims. It's mostly because me claiming lulu's role if she got lynched and using my maf!jail as a town!jail was actually an idea that I had floated in Literary Mafia, and with so many inactives I'm slightly worried maf might be able to get away with claiming a town power role, especially since both of our cops are dead and one is outed.

@Host - Am I allowed to ask players to identify certain specific aspects of my role PM, such as the number of words it contains or the number of letters the last word contains?

I've been trying to figure out a pretty air-tight statement for Angel to fact-check because just making a statement on my role might be easily extrapolated and guessed by the mafia if she is maf, and I figure "there are x instances of the letter q in my role PM!" is a much more vague statement. I know it's possible Lucas might have investigated me N0 (or another mafia role cop or something) and they know my role PM's exact text (going from chi's assessment of roles that get role abilities) but at the same time I doubt it likely that Lucas would investigate and kill the same person, so

Ummm some other points:

With the exception of Tiki if he's mafia, whose hand may have been forced to stun a non-obvious target because of the heavy suspicion he'd receive for stunning other targets...

I am actually really surprised that mafia didn't try to willingly impede at least Five with a action of any sort or attempt to drive and kill me with a dead player or an inactive...? Like, if Tiki is mafia town seemed to be pretty in agreement that Tiki was mafia and Five was town so it doesn't really make sense from a "make Five look really scummy standpoint" Is the entire mafia literally unable to act...

Given Sammie's role claim, I know it's possible that mafia might have a JOAT but like, unless they have one use of each action why would they kill Sammie who literally claimed delayed kill... Why wouldn't they save it and use it for later...?

idk last night's actions are really confusing to me

Five seems trustworthy, even if Tiki flips town and really was every other night stunner is it far fetched to have two town stunners?

idk, it just feels weird to have a killproof stunner that acts every other night and a dedicated stunner? If we have a jailer, that's a heck of a lot more action impeding power concentrated on the town side imo

If Tiki is mafia I am seriously wondering who else is on this mafia team tbh

No matter what my alignment flips, I can't believe I told the truth about my role and the silence, and it's STILL being used as solid evidence that I'm a liar. XD

THE POST GAME WILL VINDICATE ME

tiki why are you saying the post-game will vindicate you

wouldn't your flip vindicate you if you flip town

EDIT: BTW she-ra i know i wonder what your ability is but please don't straight up claim it if it's dangerous for mafia to know about it

nautilus wrote:tiki why are you saying the post-game will vindicate you

wouldn't your flip vindicate you if you flip town

Because everyone is saying if I flip Town then I must be a Mafia miller. XD

Or maybe just Cure was saying that. She bellows loud enough to sound like a whole group of people sometimes.

nautilus wrote:for what it's worth... um, i hope this isn't too presumptuous of me but given that i'm the only pretty much airtight clear in this game, would it be alright of me to be the person to pick the question angel fact checks for the next night?

I am totally down for this, but I would also like to offer a suggestion. You don't need to take it, by any means, but I wanted to... I dunno, mention something that's been bugging me.

That would be katagi's item-copy. I'm not sure what statement should be fact-checked exactly, but a number of things about it strike me as odd. Things like "my role PM said 'item' not 'ability'" or "I told the host I wanted a copy of the gun-item" with regard to how to pick a target... Don't feel any obligation to go with this, but does any of that strike you as weird, or is that just me?

Tiki the Troll wrote:Well...because the stun part of my role was actually told to me outside of the role PM, a last minute adjustment Ninfia made, concerned over balance (which is the other thing I have goin' against me now, heh).

I have reasons to believe this is actually true, as strange as that may sound. However, as a direct result of this, I am now 1200% absolutely entirely sure Tiki is mafia. Not that I wasn't sure, or that I needed this information to clinch it, but I very much think Tiki is mafia and not lying about this. Furthermore, if this is true, what we've postulated regarding the mafia JoAT needs to be re-evaluated.

I'll elaborate if I really, really need to.

...I didn't really want to say this, for reasons, but I also have very solid reasons to believe that the silencer was indeed mafia. More solid even than "silencing anyone and removing a voice from spec is always anti-town", which I also believe to be true.

I appreciate the commentary on katagi's role, but I feel like the most effective way to determine Angel's accuracy is probably for her to fact-check something about me, where it's pretty obvious what my alignment is.

Asking her to fact-check someone who had been suspected earlier this phase due to the awkwardness about the roles seems awkward, since we don't know if Angel's accurate at all and not some other role that is pretending to be a lie detector; it's possible if katagi and Angel are both mafia that the two of them could arrange for Angel to make a false answer.

I know it seems like a waste of a statement to ask about me, but I feel like this is something that should be established since Angel can't ask about alignments apparently and it's not like we can treat it like an alignment cop where we can lynch the person that the alignment cop says is mafia.

...I didn't really want to say this, for reasons, but I also have very solid reasons to believe that the silencer was indeed mafia. More solid even than "silencing anyone and removing a voice from spec is always anti-town", which I also believe to be true.

I'm curious why you think this way! It sounds from your wording that it's way more solid than usual solid reasons, so if you feel comfortable on this point, I wouldn't mind if you to expand on it? I mean, you're outed town stunner regardless so imo mafia is going to get you one way or another, but the way you've worded this makes it seem like role-related reasons which a lone stunner wouldn't necessarily be privy to...? If you have insight, please.

e: I'm actually willing to reserve judgment on katagi/ezzelin until if/when I receive this item, because if I do receive it that means that at least one of them wasn't lying about it. If I don't receive it or I die before I do, then, lol.

e2: I know there's a lot working against Tiki right now but if he actually flips town at the end of today, please no, I really would like to avoid rushing to conclusions that he was a killproof mafia miller if possible.

nautilus wrote:
e2: I know there's a lot working against Tiki right now but if he actually flips town at the end of today, please no, I really would like to avoid rushing to conclusions that he was a killproof mafia miller if possible.

Okay. This made me laugh, imagining the reactions if it were true...
...
What?

I still like causing trouble. XD

... Actually, yeah, hrm, the wording of Five's post bothers me a little.

I can understand the former comment about believing Tiki's balancing thing because of extrapolation based on the role PM; for example, taking something like Sammie's role claim into consideration, one would imply very strongly from that there would be a vigilante in this game that isn't the NK, and chi was able to explicitly extrapolate from hers that Lucas was mafia based on the removal of a line. It's possible Five's role and Tiki's roles, if they're both stunners on opposite sides, have handicaps and therefore Five would be able to accurately gauge the strength of equal roles with opposite alignments, kind of like chi did. Like how Cure/Tet were both powerful in their own rights, but had handicaps that would make the other their greatest weakness. If this is the case, please don't elaborate on it, Five.

The latter confuses me a little because the silencer isn't exactly a player we've been hyperfocusing in this phase so far (we've been looking primarily at the stunner, vig, and jailer), and only Tiki has really been driving at the fact that the silencer exists and we need to remove them from play.

It's been generally assumed that the silencer, if Tiki is mafia, is probably mafia too, since no one's actually claimed to bus Tiki with another person so far this game and several people have floated the possibility of a D1 WIFOM since Tiki generally is never a good silencing target. Silencing is incredibly anti-town because it stems discussion, and I have never seen a town silencer.

I feel like if these were the "very solid reasons" for why Five thought the mafia silencer was... super mafia, she would've just outed them in her post since everyone thinks Tiki is mafia and several people have said this already/everyone kind of believes the silencer is mafia anyways, but the "solid" reasons... that wording is weird to me, l-lol. I'm reading too much into this

I... I'm confused. I was also going to go out today but then it started snowing so maybe not

@Tiki - I give you an olive branch and you snap it across your knee

But like, okay, if Tiki is a bulletproof stunner I'll be willing to accept anything at this point

k I confirmed with host.

Angel, this is what I want you to check.

"The 35th word of nautilus' role PM's ability description, not including the title of my role PM in the PM header, has four letters in it."

This is like, Lux-level statement asking but if she gets this wrong, lmao. For what it's worth I'm open to other suggestions, but the issue is that if we ask questions about people who are ... not clear and Angel is mafia with any of them, Angel could provide favourable answers about their role and we would be none the wiser.

The reason I didn't immediately go into the reasons is that they're... super weird. Like, no, you're not going to be able to guess them or extrapolate from anything said in thread, and it doesn't really make sense for a dedicated town stunner to have any role-related reasons to think any of these things. But...

//inhales deeply

The role that I have now is not the first role I was given. I was initially given a role that was... Well, each night I could target a player and make them only able to talk in quotes from the last day phase for the next day. I had no idea what to do with it, because as town I would not want to restrict anybody talking or cut down on speculation in any way. So I... asked the host why I would use this, given the above, and I was offered a new role? I made it clear I didn't want to skew the balance of the game or anything, she insisted it was fine, so I went ahead and took the offer. Now... I am a dedicated stunner, as I have said.

I guess I am not very good at my job, and have been pushing the balance of the game against myself by stunning the cop and then speeding another kill up. Whoops? Nonetheless, it makes perfect sense for the stun part of Tiki's role to have been added on after the initial PM, and I don't feel like town would have had two silencer effects.

ANYWAY. I guess trying to get angel cleared rather than probing makes sense too. It's a thing to keep in mind for future phases, though, I guess?