Cardcaptor Sakura Mafia [Day Four]

Pancake grams! Town? Four for each of you, Town! You go, Town!

And none for Mafia.

Just woke up. Might not speculate immediately, but going to re-read this phase because the entire item situation is really weird to me. Also some statements that came in recently just feel... off? (edit: though, Five's new post makes more sense. hmmm that's an unusual circumstance, but I think I might follow it, especially if Tiki, purportedly the other stunner, is saying the same thing re: having abilities modified at game start--actually, @ Five: How quickly after receiving your role PM did you ask to have it changed, and at what time was it changed? @ Tiki: When did the balancing change come in on your role, and was there a prior notice that this might happen? Might be better if Tiki answered this first if his was a response to Five having her role changed, but either way.)

But anyway, going to re-read before I comment, but before that need to eat and relax a bit. and play love live

But, one thing:

nautilus wrote:k I confirmed with host.

Angel, this is what I want you to check.

"The 35th word of nautilus' role PM's ability description, not including the title of my role PM in the PM header, has four letters in it."

This is like, Lux-level statement asking but if she gets this wrong, lmao. For what it's worth I'm open to other suggestions, but the issue is that if we ask questions about people who are ... not clear and Angel is mafia with any of them, Angel could provide favourable answers about their role and we would be none the wiser.

Do we know if a compound statement works? I'm assuming angel's role works on a single statement, so as long as it's all under one sentence she can use it? Because right now that example reads as a "true/false", which means even if she's lying she has a 50% chance to get it right. Alternatively, you could structure such that...

"In nautilus' role PM ability description, not including the title of the role PM in the PM header, the 35th word has four letters in it, while the [10th word has seven letters in it], and the [19th word has two letters in it]."

oh wait that's still a single true/false rather than multiple, fuck. uh.

hm....

I guess it's unavoidable, and you can't slip alignment questions in. I wonder if you could slip a role question into that as well, though. Though I guess that runs the risk of failing with something like, "35th word has four letters, and Katagi doesn't know which player she copied the item from." But then that might screw up the result (Mitsu's word having 4 letters might be true, but Katagi's thing might not be true, meaning the whole thing is then false). Uhhh. Unless Mitsu could somehow phrase a statement in relation to her role PM that would act as filler. Alternatively, planning a series of questions involving Mitsu's role PM and role or mechanics questions so that way eventually the possible sets of outcomes might be used in process of elimination to determine the veracity of the role.

So, like, purely for example (the Rasei question isn't as useful)...

1) 35th word has four letters, and Five is a stunner
2) 17th word has two letters, and Katagi doesn't know which player she copied the item from
3) 5th word has six letters, and Rasei's role ability causes a 48 hour ability stun
4) 10th word has four letters, and Player A hasn't acted yet this game

Hmmm.

I suppose the one restriction is that to get a true, it requires 2x true, whereas false just requires 1x false, unless we could find a clever way to break that...

This would also make the results less immediately useful, so I don't know what to make of it.

I guess another option might be to structure the question such that "No result" might be a possible outcome, so then there's three possibilities (I.E. Mitsu's role PM doesn't have this many words in it, though that might just show up as false, I guess). Also runs the risk of just having the question completely fail outright.

I'm too tired. I guess I've got nothing.

I like the sound of your question, though, as long as the host says it'll work (wait, she clarified that but not how the items function when you asked? I might be misreading how the question was asked, i.e. "Can I talk about the specifics of my role PM in thread?" or something, idk. Would angel even be able to true/false a statement like that? angel, are there any restrictions on your lie detector other than not being able to ask about alignments? It's a single sentence, right, but otherwise anything in the sentence goes? Anything?)

(This post is a mess. I blame having just woken up.)

Five wrote:The role that I have now is not the first role I was given. I was initially given a role that was... Well, each night I could target a player and make them only able to talk in quotes from the last day phase for the next day. I had no idea what to do with it, because as town I would not want to restrict anybody talking or cut down on speculation in any way. So I... asked the host why I would use this, given the above, and I was offered a new role? I made it clear I didn't want to skew the balance of the game or anything, she insisted it was fine, so I went ahead and took the offer. Now... I am a dedicated stunner, as I have said.

I guess I am not very good at my job, and have been pushing the balance of the game against myself by stunning the cop and then speeding another kill up. Whoops?

I love how the stuff I quoted in the second paragraph is true, and the stuff in the other paragraph is, as Five herself put it, "super weird" (though still believable, esp given my own, amended role), yet I'm still the one with 100% of the vote. XD

@Nautilus: Aww. =( Well, I hope it clears up soon so you can enjoy the day! Reminds me of my very first thought upon opening my eyes this morning: "WHY IS IT DO COLD?"

Edit: @ Ninja Lux: i actually didn't request any changes, pretty content with what i had. Must have come after 5 was adjusted though, as it adjusted later, and I think Ninfia was looking at what would happen with all the roles, adjusted our otherwise, sent in, worried she'd upset the balance.

She also told me that being a part time stunner was last of her initial draft for The Dash, then removed last minute, before getting added back on, heh.

Tiki The Troll wrote:I love how the stuff I quoted in the second paragraph is true, and the stuff in the other paragraph is, as Five herself put it, "super weird" (though still believable, esp given my own, amended role), yet I'm still the one with 100% of the vote. XD

Yeah, dude, because you're mafia and I'm not.

Five wrote:Yeah, dude, because you're mafia and I'm not.

Thank you for the stunning commentary and speculation. XD
...
...
Huh. I didn't even realize what I read saying till after I wrote it. "Stunning." Hehe.

Oh, no, not that Angel could use that statement! I basically asked the host:

"am i allowed to post something about the specifics of my role PM's wording without actually posting my role PM or claiming my ability directly", not necessarily a question on Angel's abilities.

or in simpler terms, this is exactly what I asked the host

me: would i be able to say something like "there are x letters in the x word of my role PM"
host: uhh sure I suppose

I'm not going to comment on whether or not I threw multiple true/falses in there to check Angel's full extent of her abilities so that mafia can't game an answer out of that, though! :3c

I did ask about how items worked though and I got this as a response way back when the first item was spawned:

[31/03/2016 1:55:25 PM] me: kicks down door
[31/03/2016 1:55:31 PM] me: hosr are you allowed to explain to me how items work
[31/03/2016 1:55:51 PM] host: I mean I could allow myself
[31/03/2016 1:55:54 PM] host: but nah
[31/03/2016 1:56:15 PM] me: looks at you
[31/03/2016 1:56:39 PM] host: looks back

The items are fucking me up too, tbh, because it really, really seems weird to me that so many roles appear to be reliant on items that one role can generate, but I'm seriously willing to pass judgment on the items if/when I receive one, since obviously if I don't receive one or it kills me then lmao

This game is a mess. I'm a mess.

eats a plotcake. Thanks, daughter.

I... okay, so I read Five's response, but if that's true, erm.

So from what I gathered from Five's response, that implies that at first she did not have a stunner role but a weird role that was inherently anti-town and impeded town communication. She asked about this and then got offered a stunner role instead.

The issue I have with this statement is that this implies, if Tiki is mafia (or if Tiki is town), that town had only one role (the presumed town jailer) that could impede actions in the original role draft and no dedicated stunner, and that seems... really weird? Did the host make a game with no stunners at first, or at least no stunners since Tiki seems to have gotten his change earlier than Five's?

Stunning is a pretty integral role in mafia games that I'd expect a game of this size to have at least one dedicated stunner from the outset, and it feels weird that both stunners in this game would equally claim that their roles were added on last minute or changed wildly last minute. From my own perspective, I identify the town power roles first (cop, doctor, vigilante, stunner, jailer) and then work on more niche roles while creating games so like.

What happened here

★ The Rasei Vs no Lynch
★ The Nautilus Vs Tiki the Troll
★ The Five Vs Tiki the Troll
★ The Tiki the Troll Vs Five
★ The Cure Vs Tiki the Troll
★ The mr. Gerbear Vs Tiki the Troll
★ The Angelstar Vs Tiki the Troll
★ The She-ra Vs Tiki the Troll
★ The Katagi Vs Tiki the Troll
★ The Aeiou Vs Tiki the Troll


★ Tiki the Troll Vlll
★ Five l
★ No lynch l

let me know if I missed anyone!

nautilus wrote:The issue I have with this statement is that this implies, if Tiki is mafia (or if Tiki is town), that town had only one role (the presumed town jailer) that could impede actions in the original role draft and no dedicated stunner, and that seems... really weird? Did the host make a game with no stunners at first, or at least no stunners since Tiki seems to have gotten his change earlier than Five's?

To clarify, I think my adjustment came after Five's. Like, stunning was drafted in for the Dash, but removed for the role PM.

Five got her role changed.

Mine was then changed back to its original concept, possibly in response to what happened with Five.

I think.

Okay if that's the case I'm slightly willing to accept that maybe town began this game with a single dedicated jailer, but it just seems weird to add on a dedicated stunner unless there's no other roles that can stun on the town side, because a stunner is a pretty important town power role and can easily shift balance. And that's weird to have no town stunners unless there's no mafia stunners, but th

I don't know anymore

I am just a simple day vig though don't ask me about roles that's chi's job sob

Anyways, Tiki: In the end, do you sincerely think Five is mafia? Earlier you floated the possibility of both of you being town, so.

I wish I could just shoot Tiki now so we can end this debacle once and for all but I cannot and by the time I receive katagi and ezz's things he'll be dead

Oh, whoops, didn't vote due to the large post last night.

Vote: Tiki the Troll

@ Five: How quickly after receiving your role PM did you ask to have it changed, and at what time was it changed?
@ Tiki: When did the balancing change come in on your role, and was there a prior notice that this might happen? Might be better if Tiki answered this first if his was a response to Five having her role changed, but either way.

Tiki the Troll wrote:@ Ninja Lux: i actually didn't request any changes, pretty content with what i had. Must have come after 5 was adjusted though, as it adjusted later, and I think Ninfia was looking at what would happen with all the roles, adjusted our otherwise, sent in, worried she'd upset the balance.

She also told me that being a part time stunner was last of her initial draft for The Dash, then removed last minute, before getting added back on, heh.

Can you give a timeline? When did your change come in? The exact time of it, and any notifications you might've received prior to this change.

@ Mitsu

oh okay, I got you. I trust your ability to test this, just thought I'd offer some thoughts since I recently tried to break a game with a similar role. >w>

Re: Items

Still haven't re-read this phase, but... hopefully you won't die when whatever that item is comes back from whatever hell it's currently in, so maybe we can learn more. If you do die. Shit. Though I guess we'll sort of have a conclusion to that particular chain of events, but in this case so many people confidently outing their involvement with the item just makes me ???

Also now, wait. With your last post this gets even weirder. We apparently have several item roles lumped together, a weird setup of dedicated stunners/jailers from what we can tell judging by the comments that came in recently from Five, and apparently, if this is accurate, apparently would have had* a pseudo-silence on top of an actual silence, and seemingly they would've been on opposite sides. I don't see what Five would gain from lying about this, so I. Don't really know what to make of that.

Edit:

Tiki the Troll wrote:To clarify, I think my adjustment came after Five's. Like, stunning was drafted in for the Dash, but removed for the role PM.

Five got her role changed.

Mine was then changed back to its original concept, possibly in response to what happened with Five.

Okay, wait.

Give me an exhaustive step-by-step timeline from when you received your role PM, everything that was in it, and then any circumstances leading up to the change in your role and what that was in its entirety. Also share anything the host may have said that you keep hinting at re: original concept.

Edit 2: Ninja'd by Mitsu, but posting.

* Edit 3: Clarity

Oh, no, I meant katagi and ezz's things as "the item"; if I successfully receive something this phase and it doesn't kill me (and if it resembles the item that killed Plot, I guess), it confirms the fact that katagi did a thing, and if ezz can accurately confirm when I'll receive it and I receive it then, that confirms ezz's ability to some degree, since katagi professed they won't know when I'll receive it.

If I don't die, I'll claim as much information I can about the item's composition itself before using it so that we can confidently attempt to figure out the original creator, though.

I don't know about this stunner mess though. I agree with you that this makes no sense to lie about but also opens up a heck of a lot of questions about what's going on in this g...ame? Like, I know hosts can make last minute changes and edits to roles, but this is a pretty big change to a role here to modify its entire ability...

Five and Tiki apparently both stunned Plot, apparently both have powers that were changed after the fact? Why did I FOS both of these two in the same phase? Why did I do it and open up this can of worms?

e: @Lux - Since you're here, do you have any theories on why mafia or town may have wanted to take Sammiya out?

Ah, I see. I'll stop commenting too much more because I kind of stopped intently following that discussion while I was compiling my large post. I think I saw the clarification from Katagi that she can only copy item abilities and not role abilities, and I remember ezz's comments about "borrowing" the item and that it'd go back eventually, and something about Katagi confirming she only gave it to you in the same way she might give it to herself, rather than... maliciously send it to you? I don't know. I'm just going to wait until I have a moment to re-read that whirlwind, and/or you get the item since that'll help clarify things.

re: Stunner I don't remember if Ninfia ever answered my question regarding what rollover would show if two stuns were on the same target. HOST. PLS. Would it show a single stun on that target or two stuns?

Them both claiming it, and then both apparently claiming stuns the next phase... and I can actually buy why they'd both stun their targets. Five's in a weird position for me because while I view all of her actions as logically town stunner from what we know now, by her own admission, her role usage has been awkward since she's stunned the alignment cop (not that she could've known) and then Sammiya, who just... died somehow. Meanwhile Tiki is also claiming a plot stun, which I almost forgot about and feels mildly out of character for him (I could be wrong on this), and then stunned Adibro who couldn't have acted other than the NK last night. So while he might be trying to avoid stunning a town power role, there's... it's just... I don't want to get into the WIFOM, but it can be interpreted a number of ways. (Come to think of it we still haven't heard from Adibro again. Or Jeanne. At least Gerry's shown up, though I wouldn't mind seeing more.)

I do want to see Tiki and then Five respond to the exact timeline of events since it might hammer out the veracity of this story, which... seems true since why would it be false? But then what that means for the active roles in this game. Idk.

nautilus wrote:Anyways, Tiki: In the end, do you sincerely think Five is mafia? Earlier you floated the possibility of both of you being town, so.

Is anyone really going to take my thoughts at face value at this point? XD Though, given I think all this was done for balance, I'm willing to be we're playing for opposite teams.

nautilus wrote:I wish I could just shoot Tiki now so we can end this debacle once and for all...

+1

As for Lux's question, my PM just says I have tremendous speed, and I can run away from a kill or a lynch once.
Later on, lovely hosr started telling me she was concerned about the balance she had for the gamepresumably seeing how things would play out), and said she might give me something. I said she didn't need to, as I didn't want her worrying to much, and possibly trying patch the game more out of panic and maybe some sort of guilt than anything.

She did anyway, and I expressed my concerns with her again, but she reassured me that it was actually a removed feature of my role she just reimplemented. Talking about it a bit more, that's when she also told me the flavor, the reasoning behind the stun, heh.

For Lux: I asked this several days ago but I forgot to post the response in the mess:

[31/03/2016 10:32:55 PM] Me: @ Host: If someone was stunned twice, would that be shown in rollover?),
[31/03/2016 10:32:58 PM] Me: ???
[31/03/2016 10:33:04 PM] Host: nope

If we're confident Lucas cop'd Plot, then I feel like mafia would probably spread out their actions instead of concentrating them all on Plot for some weird, obscure reason so I don't think nor do I have any reason to believe Five is mafia at the moment except for that really fucking weird kill on Sammiya last night. There's a lot more for me going against Tiki than Five.

I would echo that let's... let's clear all of this up because what is going on here. I'm still fine with a Tiki lynch, but like. What... what?