Paw Enforcement [BEARS WIN]

Kiyoko wrote:A few people have asked me this now but there is no way to block a gunshot except with a bulletproof vest.

If Han shoots Greedo and Greedo shoots Hans, both will get hit no matter who shot first.

Lucky for Han, Greedo shot Hans by mistake.

I FIXED IT BEFORE YOU QUOTED IT DOESN'T COUNT

Then all we gotta do is make sure the person actually shoots in the night. Nobody with a gun can be inactive lest they die and drop their gun.

Katze, I am confused.

Okay entertain this hypothetical.

I said I wanted to vote for you because you were in this position where I believed you were trustworthy for now from D1 reads, had the best chance of survival, and I wanted to see how mafia would react to you no longer having a bulletproof. Had I voted on you, you'd get a gun and lose bulletproof.

You are obviously active. If you are town as you claim, which I was willing to put enough faith in from thread + your activity to say I'd trust you with a gun, then you'd be using the gun in a pro-town manner. You'd use the gun this night phase. It would be guaranteed to go off. It would never not go off under any circumstance of inbox or action priority or other. It will always go off.

In this case, you use the gun tonight.

If you were NK'd and died, town had an, in theory, pro-town gun go off and gets your alignment flip, but loses one for the ratio. Which sucks. It's never going to not suck. We run this risk no matter who we lynch, if they're town. If you did not die from the NK and did use your gun, then you were positioned in my reads to a point where I felt comfortable with this outcome.

The point is I did not want to give many players a gun. I also did not want to strip many players of killproof, because of thread discussion, player meta, and what I'd expect out of them. If alca is town, I actually won't be surprised if mafia does kill her tonight because she is a prominent voice and that's worth the alignment flip to limit chatter and theories.

Tl;dr: If you were the person with the gun, you are obviously active and going to act with it. I'm saying you felt pro-town and least likely to die, and if you were to die then I'd count on the shot to go to a reasonable/pro-town target.

Does this make sense?

katze wrote:Then all we gotta do is make sure the person actually shoots in the night. Nobody with a gun can be inactive lest they die and drop their gun.

/flips tables

NOW GREEDO, HAN, AND HANS ARE ALL DEAD.



Poor Hans.

@lux
why are you confused? I get why you wanted to act on me and I got it a long time ago. I made my active shooter comment after kiyo confirmed that it doesn't matter who shoots first, which was my concern and wasn't confirmed until just now?

I was saying that all phase long since I asked Kiyo very early on. I can even dig up quotes, but I confirmed it and mentioned it in thread, and I kept trying to mention it to you prior to Kiyo's post just now.

I know you were gone so you may have missed it, which is why I brought it up once or twice after. I am just frustrated because it feels like the reaction to my suggestion to lynch you was, "this is the worst idea I will lynch lux" and then "but we'll lose a gun" and then "oh ok I see", without actually addressing my explanations as to why I wanted to vote for you.

Either way, are we on the same page? Regardless of how the plan(s) went down, anyway.

Re: Alca, I'm going to be busy for a bit, but I'll post my thoughts/suggestions on shots later, but we should definitely have some community input. Maybe? I don't care if mafia can influence that given that they have 3 voices to 8.

Who would you most wish to shoot and/or how do you wish to use your guns?

@Alca, my thoughts:

I think you should use both shots tonight, so long as you're confident they'll do more good than harm. If you're town, killing you is probably the least risky move mafia could make right now.

As far as targets are concerned, I'm not sure yet. I'd rather not pick Lux, Gerry (because he's been absent), and Ninfia (she still is feeling more town to me).

Also, I'm still mulling over whether it's better to take out one target with both bullets or shoot two separate players.

Also at this point, the one thing I trust most is that Katze and Lux are not both mafia together.

I think I might like to split the shots rather than using both on one person, but I think I will use both tonight.

I also think it would make the most sense if we use the shots as a way to kind of select two lynch candidates for tomorrow? Let's say I shoot A and B, then both A and B can be lynched in one attempt the next phase, and so the votes that phase will have more weight.

What do people think? ;v;

I didn't see the mentions that it didn't matter who shot first until kiyo said something. I did see that you mentioned that if the town gun was shot before mafia, then it wouldn't matter if mafia shot after. The shot wouldn't be null. Though it doesn't necessarily mean that if mafia shot first, then the town shot wouldn't be null. I dunno why I thought that, but.. Yes, we're on the same page and I'm sorry Lux that I'm prone to confusion.

I agree that both shots should be taken tonight so that we don't lose one if alca does end up being the target of the mafia kill.

Luxaria wrote:
3. Anyone that gets a gun is instantly liable to use it because there is no way to prevent it once it's been used.

But if you want to pursue this angle, I'd consider a stipulation of: If you get a gun, fire it that phase. It will always go off.

Luxaria wrote:As to the question, what do they actually gain from taking you out? I assume you'd use the gun right away. No matter what it's going to go off

Luxaria wrote:As soon as an action for a gun is sent in, no matter if you would die, it will go off. I based my assumptions off the idea that worst-case scenario and a town holding a gun gets NK'd, they'd still get their shots off that night if they used them. Which is also why I'm encouraging people to use their guns ASAP

I can see how the wording of, "If they fire and then die, it will go off" might make it sound like they had to beat inbox priority or some such. But I tried to express how literally nothing can stop a gunshot from firing once the action has been submitted. I am sorry if this was not clear, and I know you arrived late in the phase and may not have been able to process all mentions, explanations, or otherwise.

@ 2guns
Splitting them is probably for the better unless Gerry just literally never posts all night and we want to off him for a flip. I like Gerry, though, so I don't want to do that unless he actually isn't around.

Putting them to sort of set up possible lynch targets is reasonable. We could have two sets of three players, maybe. I don't know.

I'll update my reads to include a "PLAYERS I'D SHOOT" sort of thing, but AFK for now for a bit.

Umm! I'm going to head out soon so I'll just make a long post of my thoughts. ;v;

I think the people I'm least inclined to shoot right now are Luxaria, katze, Rasei and Ninfia? Everyone else I am having trouble reading.

I think of the people I am willing to target:

drandahl's flip might be able to shed information on me, Luxaria, Mr. Gerbear or Mr. Alice, Rasei and Ninfia based on his interactions so far in thread.

Mr. Gerbear's flip might be able to shed information on me, Mr. Alice, and drandahl.

Similarly, Mr. Alice's flip might be able to shed information on me, drandahl, and Mr. Gerbear.

Umm, that's all I've got. I haven't been able to get a read on Tiki The Troll, Aeiou or ezzelin because they haven't had much interaction with other players in the thread so far.

Those are my thoughts, anyway. I would love feedback from others. ;v;

I'm pretty okay with these suggestions for the time being.

Also Lux it's okay! Everything is good and you don't gotta try to convince me or anything anymore. I'm a derp sometimes and i'm sorry I made things difficult for a minute.

So, two guns.

If alca shoots two different targets and we lynch one of them, then the other gets a gun the following night phase. Ultimately, the only way we can ever prevent mafia from using their mechanically granted gun is by shooting them in the night and then lynching them right after. Double-tap.

I'm trying to predict how this game might go down in terms of stripping killproofs, firing guns, lynches, NKs, but really it's so all over the place. I do think it'll have a slow start and then an explosive end. But that's a tangent.

First off, whether alca lives or dies tonight will be very interesting. I've thought before that mafia is more likely to try and strip away a few killproofs instead of thinning town so that way between that, guns, and lynches, it means they have a lot of options and don't need to prep a kill. I also think they're smart enough to realize this benefits them more for a variety of reasons largely due to economy of actions and denial of information. This said, alca is a centralizing figure, so silencing her might be too valuable. I think that course of action would be a mistake, personally, but it's a possibility.

But, anyway,

PLAYERS I'D GIVE A GUN:
ezzelin(?), Aeiou, katze, drandahl(?)
PLAYERS I WOULD NOT WANT TO GIVE A GUN:
Tiki the Troll, Mr. Gerbear, Ninfia
NOT SURE:
Rasei, drandahl(?), ezzelin(?)
BLAIRE:
Mr. Alice

PLAYERS I'D SHOOT:
Mr. Gerbear, Tiki the Troll
PLAYERS I WOULD NOT WANT TO SHOOT:
Ninfia, ezzelin, drandahl(?)
NOT SURE:
Aeiou, Rasei, drandahl(?), katze(?)
BLAIRE:
Mr. Alice

This was actually pretty difficult and might look weird, but I ran through it 5 times to get it to what felt right for each person. For the record, yes, Blaire is a sub-set of NOT SURE.

One or more of the people shot will keep their gun, assuming we lynch off a killproof-less target tomorrow. One might die and thus not get to use their gun. Additionally, there are other factors to consider like opinions on other players and also what value they have in terms of what resulting actions occur in response. Thus...

1. If Mr. Gerbear doesn't post before the end of the phase, both shots on him. Else...
2. Use one gun on Subset A (katze, Tiki the Troll, Mr. Gerbear) and one gun on Subset B (Mr. Alice, Aeiou, Mr. Gerbear).

I'm still not super fond of that, but it's something. Mainly I've been debating if I want to rotate Dylan in for someone, somewhere. This is tricky since there are only two people I don't want to give a gun to but also want to shoot, and they're both in here. So I counterbalanced that by two people I don't mind receiving guns that are also in my "not sure" on if I want to shoot them. Rasei was up for consideration, but I think I'll hold off on wanting her shot. I'm open to ideas.

I am tired.
This post is too long.

HELLO I AM HERE. I am back from exploring ACTUAL AMERICA. I saw grand canyons and also way too many farm fields oh my god

also we were pulled over by actual American cops

Luckily I am alive so pls don't kill me.