Ok spec post! I still have reservations about Kotakia but I'll admit a lot of my reaction was just immediate kneejerk because - I um, I had drawn conclusions about roles based off the information that I had and Kotakia's claim + the rest of the day phase threw off a lot of my assumptions about the game and certain role powers. I was also really highly strung because I wasn't able to get my actions in on time despite the phase end being like a whole half hour after rollover and I'd even warned people about it beforehand, like I WAS SO SURE SOMETHING WAS GOING TO HAPPEN and i still missed it I was just upset I guess.
Anyway I'm still trying to reform my opinions about the game but I'm ok! I'd like to vent my thoughts at some point but I think it'd be better to do so later in the game, I don't want to derail the thread from today's lynch.
n2I think it's safe to assume that the stun and NK that was sent in on n2 were both maf sided - even if it was a town phase ender, town has no reason to stun Kotakia over more prominent mafia candidates. I agree with Kiyoko in that making assumptions on who's maf based on who was active during this time is somewhat hasty since it's very easy for people to lurk and if maf know that there's going to be an instant rollover they know to lay low.
Today's lynchSince Kotakia's investigating Alice this phase I do kinda feel like spec & voting at this stage is kind of pointless - if Alice flips maf then we vote her out, otherwise there's role-supported precedent to support her towniness. I'd like to figure out a way to test the veracity of Kotakia's roleclaim but I'm at a loss, honestly.
In any case, I'd like to
vote: AliceofOz for my original reasoning plus the fact that despite being around (unless I missed it??) she has literally not commented at all on Tiki's behaviour which I find really odd when she was voting for him just yesterday, and I'd like her to come talk about it?
@AliceofOz
Do you still think Tiki's suspicious and do you have any thoughts or comments on his actions from the last day phase?
TBH if Kotakia finds Alice town I don't mind voting for Tiki because I do think they've both exhibited inexplicable behaviour. Some thoughts on Tiki:
- Spoiler:
i'm trying to go through all the scenarios of maf tiki + maf alice, maf tiki + town alice, town tiki + maf alice, town tiki + town alice and i think uh... tbh i think two back to back day phases is too mentally exhausting for me and i have a sudden appreciation for the regular game schedule.
Last phase I brought up the point that I felt Tiki was town due to Jaiser not cooperating with him in a scenario where that does nothing but make them both look more suspicious (this was actually a point I brought up in response to Alice). Primarily I felt that while it's possible for Tiki by himself to make unusual plays, I had trouble understanding why a team of seven would participate in & allow it, so I didn't really find his behaviour scummy. Kiyoko later brings up the point that it's possible that a maf-cooperating Jaiser and Tiki were actually single or in separate relationships and were deliberately trying to stay vague so they couldn't be called out which I think is a valid explanation for this behaviour.
Further points:
* Deferring to veterans who claim that Tiki's role is very unusual and he has a habit of lying compulsively, I'm somewhat skeptical of his claim.
* I do have a tendency to tunnel vision on anyone who wastes town lynches or townvigshots because I dislike letting people get away with scummy behaviour/outcomes by coming up with convoluted explanations for it after the fact. I feel like circumstances like this can be avoided by being upfront with information about powers that may be detrimental or confusing to town.
* I personally don't think Tiki + Alice maf partners is farfetched? But I guess you guys already know I like entertaining crazy maf gambits?? Like if maf figures out both Tiki and Alice are getting lynched but want to use one of Alice's role powers before she goes down, why not proc Tiki's lynchproof to get them through to the next phase?
General question:
Is multiple-shot lynchproof mafia actually a thing? If Tiki is lynchproof maf i would've assumed he'd only get one charge, right?
General note:
T3tsuya says we should just go about voting regularly but I do think that considering Tiki's role claim this is a phase where a vote with more coordination or forethought might be a good idea? Primarily I'm concerned about Tiki's confirmed lynchproofability and what might happen if he gets a split partial vote. Are we prepared to lynch both Tiki and Alice simultaneously if Tiki is telling the truth about his role and we split votes between Alice and Tiki? I personally wouldn't mind seeing both of them dead but I think it's worth thinking about when placing your vote.
nautilus wrote:Also: Everyone in Rasei's list should straight up post some more in-thread, because I'm also convinced there's a second mafia member in that list that may or may not have sent the NK, and it wasn't Jaiser. It also 100% was not Luxaria and was not Tet, and I trust Rasei's list.
Of the list I am most suspicious of Plot Stickers and Mr. Alice so I'd really like!! To know!! What you did N1!
...
I am fairly certain one of Aistaraina, Plotstickers, Mr. Alice is also mafia, unless Kotakia investigated a miller at some point in this game.
Rasei's list has been on my mind - I agree that with the number of people listed it's highly unlikely that it was falsified. There is something about it bothering me but I wasn't really sure if pressing for information on night actions would be town-beneficial and I thought it'd be better left to discuss on a different phase when we have the Alice vs Tiki lynch to look at today.
I'm very interested in seeing where this conversation goes, but I'm going to extend a call for caution to anyone who's thinking of softclaiming or hinting. Coming to thread to talk and spec more is good, of course! My main concern is that if Kotakia is our alignment cop that means our cop's been soundly outed (I don't personally think we'd have another alignment investigator), and if we have dedicated protect roles, it is really vital that they're able to act undisturbed.
I don't feel that any of the people you listed are particularly
towny (ok but who do i think is towny literally no one i dont trust anyone ever) but I do think it's a very sensitive time to be asking for information regarding night actions?
i'd also like to see alice's response to nautilus & kotakia's questions
ok i'd love to join in on this spec but im really exhausted i think i'm gonna knock out and see if i can get up early to continue \o/
Message [Page 28 of 63]
Tiki The Troll vs AliceofOz
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