Despite several remarks on behalf of nautilus and ezreal that AliceofOz might be misunderstood or that these were her typing quirks, they still went after her. Let's look at this:
In
this post, ezreal casts the first vote on D2 against Alice by picking at her wording. Going down the list contained in her spoiler:
AliceofOz wrote:I MEAN. THATS A LOT OF SUSPECTS RIGHT THERE.
AliceofOz wrote:The "LOTS OF SUSPECTS" comment was just me not thinking straight. Mm I didn't realize that a blocked action wouldn't show up in rollover. Sorry about that.
ezreal called this "Backpedaling after casting suspicion."
Alice's first post was the 476th post in the thread.
eleni's post stating "i guess we'll be voting someone today among kiku, Kotakia, chinomi, and deo?" was the 477th post in the thread.
ezreal's question of "Question for alcasync, if the person who sent in the NK is stunned or jailed, will the kill attempt show up in rollover?" was the 480th post in the thread.
alcasync's reply of "And any actions that get blocked by a stun or jail won't show up in rollover at all." was the 482nd post in the thread.
eleni's post stating "oh interesting, so I guess we won't know about failed kills at all then... that gets rid of our 'leads' then lol." was the 491st post in the thread.
AliceofOz's post of "The 'LOTS OF SUSPECTS' comment was just me not thinking straight. I didn't realize that a blocked action wouldn't show up in rollover. Sorry about that. It was an honest mistake." was the 616th post in the thread.
Between the 476th post and 616th posts, AliceofOz posted twice discussing the rollover--which will be brought up. Why is it that Alice gets picked on for stating the same thing as eleni? Obviously, Alice never pursued it in the two intervening posts, so she realized it was a mistake. Saying she cast suspicion is completely narrow-minded and ignores context.
AliceofOz wrote:The targets stunned were quite random I'll say. Looking at the rollover right now it almost seems as if all three stuns were town. This would be very unbalanced, but hmm. If the baddies had a stun to use, why would they stun these people in particular unless it was to frame? Or to clear one of their own?
AliceofOz wrote:I said "it almost seems like all three stuns were town." I..didn't mean that I thought they were all town stuns. Just that the targets were interesting. Bad wording on my part?
ezreal wrote:You mention explicitly that you think the targets are unusual enough that the three stuns might come from town (this is what I believe you mean by "this would be very unbalanced"), but then claim that that's not what you meant when defending yourself. I also don't think you ever clarified why you thought the stun targets were so unusual? Another backpedal.
Her first quote merely commented that the stun targets seemed all over the place--fair--and that they almost looked like town stuns--why isn't this fair?--but clearly she did not find this likely since that would be unbalanced. She then muses over the objective of mafia stunning these targets, since she has, at this point, dismissed the notion that all three stuns are town. There is no backpedaling here.
AliceofOz wrote:Hmmm....I'm having a hard time believing that mafia would target Kiyo. At this point she is way too obvious of a target and someone is BOUND to cast protection on her. (which happened ahem) But apparently that's what happened?
AliceofOz wrote:Ah, about my Kiyo-chan comment, I don't think it was too far-fetched? Kiyoko's a very popular target so she was bound to get protected or jailed or even stunned.
AliceofOz wrote:I'm not too sure why Ez-kun voted for Kiyoko. Umm..was it somewhat because of what I said? You know, I'm just trying to be a bit more open about my doubts and since we didn't get much info this rollover I just blurted out whatever was in my head at the time. It doesn't mean I suspect Kiyo-chan of being a baddie really. I'm mostly questioning the bad guys for their bad choices. ･✿ヾ╲(｡◕‿◕｡)╱✿･ﾟ
AliceofOz wrote:Ano... I know I put some doubt on Kiyo-chan but I don't feel comfortable voting for her since...if she's town, she will get killed off later I feel (I'M SORRY. BUT LIKE...THIS ALWAYS HAPPENS?) and we should let her stay for as long as possible with her beautiful posts, and if she's a baddie, well.... See I always expect strong players like alca-sensei and Kiyo-senpai to get investigated/stunned/whatever early due to their status. So if she's a baddie I expect someone to notice it early. Mm I wouldn't be surprised if someone's already investigated her actually.
ezreal wrote:This in general I found kinda weird but I'm not sure if I was just influenced by nautilus's read of your posts where she thought your first few posts were casting suspicion on Kiyoko (I didn't actually get that vibe from it). What I found more odd is you don't want to vote for her, because... She'll die sooner or later anyway, which doesn't seem like a very town-sided attitude to take? In any case I actually can't tell if this is a backpedal because I'm not sure what the intentions were with the original post.
In the first quote, Alice makes a comment that it seems unlikely that Kiyoko would be targeted, since she is an obvious target for protection.
In the second quote, Alice factually backs up her statement: Kiyoko is a popular target. You should look at your buddy's breakdown of all the night phases Kiyoko has died in her history of play.
In the third quote, Alice wonders why you are voting for Kiyoko (tbh that was a really weird vote) and wonders if she influenced it at all. She then clarifies that she was trying to voice her thoughts and stated that she found the NK target to be a poor choice (spoiler alert: It actually was).
In the fourth quote, Alice then comments that despite finding some merit in
your own argument in favor of Kiyoko being a setup (which, by the way, nautilus said was plausible as well fyi, as well as a few others), she does not wish to vote for Kiyoko. She then accurately states that Kiyoko tends to die, anyway, if she's town (she does), and if she isn't killed then it's likely an investigative role would target Kiyoko to vet a strong town player. None of this is without sound logic.
I referenced your buddy's list, by the way. You should take a look:
nautilus wrote:Excellent. I went and checked a bunch of games that I remember playing with or reading with Kiyoko. You should see a trend in her deaths: Night 2, Night 5, Night 0, Night 2, Night 1, Night 1, Night 1, Night 1, Night 3, Night 2, Night 5, Night 2, Night 1, Night 1.
((Also, this reinforces why it's a bad idea to target Kiyoko N0, like Alice was suggesting. See all of those N1 kills?))
But anyway, this list does back what Alice said: Kiyoko usually dies anyway if she's town.
AliceofOz wrote:The only person I'm kind of suspecting (in a very mild and pretty fashion) is Rasei-san due to her mm...her writing trope and such. I don't think it was written by Alca-sensei, I mean the styles look different and it was much more morbid too. ( ︶︿︶)
AliceofOz wrote:I don't expect people to follow this vote, and I don't think anyone's getting lynched by the looks of it, so this is just me adding some variety to the tally. (*＾▽＾)／
ezreal wrote:Casting suspicion due to flavour text (which is already a weak argument, but I'll admit I'm biased because I hate arguments formed off flavour text), then explicit acknowledgement that your d1 vote is for show which also reflects an unwillingness to take responsibility for the vote. It kind of reads like "sorry if Rasei gets lynched, I didn't really mean for her to get lynched", which kind of defeats the purpose of voting at all.
Except literally the entire thread was discussing the nature of the flavor text and how it sounded like a delayed kill. Meanwhile, nautilus is suggesting she
hates it when people NL, an opinion you back, and let's not forget that your own vote that phase was on Kiyoko. And you're going to call
her out for a "weak vote" and not joining others with NL? Please.
AliceofOz wrote:Also, about Rasei-san the fanfiction writer. I kind of think she's the neutral right now since..like you've all said, the fics don't really affect anything from what we can tell. And..they're just there as a little tidbit every rollover so.... I mean doesn't it look neutral?
ezreal wrote:And another backpedal...
You have got to be joking. Her second post was the 86th post in the new thread, with the rollover being the very first post of that thread. It was also her first post of the phase. How is that backpedaling when she addresses the new flavor text--which was
unanimously agreed to sound like a neutral/town Rasei?--and changes her view accordingly?
AliceofOz wrote:This kind of makes me suspicious of Tiki-kun though? Mmmm he's never really said anything concrete about his relationship with Jaiser-san and to me that looks a little bit suspicious. Jaiser-san also never said anything to confirm or deny their relationship, and while I can understand that he's busy...surely a sentence saying "Yes, I am indeed giving in to my yaoi ur--ahem" wouldn't be a problem? So yeah...just..something that I'm eyeballing atm.
ezreal wrote:In general I find casting suspicion on Tiki at this point kind of...? I don't know? If both Jaiser and Tiki were mafia it would give Jaiser more reason to cooperate with Tiki's claims, right? I know that Tiki has a reputation for unorthodox play (...?), but I do think it'd be weird for both of them to be maf?
So she's in trouble for thinking he had a wishy-washy vote that several others (including nautilus, btw) found suspect? Plus, Tiki had a very obvious connection to a confirmed mafia and was not elaborating. Note that the entire thread wanted to hear from Tiki at this time. You can't isolate her post from the events of the thread.
AliceofOz wrote:(I'm hesitant to say Tiki-kun because WHAT ARE THE ODDS THAT HE'S MAFIA YET AGAIN? SERIOUSLY?)
ezreal wrote:Backpedals again within the same post where you express suspicion?
You have got to be kidding. She made a simple quip that he has been mafia for literally almost all of his games. That is not backpedaling. That is just musing over the situation.
AliceofOz wrote:So unless someone goofs up we'll need to either NL or vote for someone random/with the tiniest bit of suspicion on them.
ezreal wrote:Rather than following up with a Tiki vote actually suggests a NL or RL? I DUNNO MAN
In the entire block of your "analysis" of Alice's statements, this is the
only one that feels slightly off. And even then, I don't think it's fair for you to exaggerate what's merely her probing about with her thoughts.
Conclusively, literally nothing you highlighted is at all suspicious. You completely remove everything she says from the context in which it was made, and you elect to never comprehend the words she says, but, rather, how you can twist them to make her look bad.
nautilus then says
nautilus wrote:I voted AliceofOz last phase and ezreal does bring up some remarkably good points about her, which I'm not sure can be ascribed to her RPing alone (specifically the dodginess of some of her answers, such as her response about the three stuns all being town).
I had conceded I had perhaps misunderstood her posts but the evidence ezreal presents is really ... ??? I already countered AliceofOz's comment to me earlier, but.
Somehow nautilus takes ezreal's intentionally twisted interpretation of Alice's statements and thinks that she raised good points. nautilus does that thing where she says, "Well I think I misread AliceofOz but ???" She has a habit for doing this, too.
nautilus wrote:
I ... found her response to ezreal kind of interesting? I guess I understand frustration because she clarified several of her points to me when I pressed her about them, but...
I looked up her original posts though and I hecked up because I misread one one her answers to me as "mafia were likely to target randomly" vs "less likely to target randomly", but...
So Alice clarifies all of the things ezreal critiqued above, and you even state that you can understand them
and that you, personally, screwed up and misread her statements... and then you go on to say how those same statements
you, yourself, misread can be used against her and justify a lynch in the process?
No.
None of the points raised were good. Everything was twisted out of context. She was deliberately and intentionally misconstrued to paint her as backpedaling, and when she offered her take
here, you just say, "Oh, well! Vote Alice."
It was for these reasons that I was completely uneasy with the vote on AliceofOz and did not find it credible. I still do not, and I think you two purposefully misled town and started a bandwagon on her under the guise of scum hunting. I am willing to bet this was nautilus' idea, since she is familiar with Alice's posting habits.
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Kiyoko vs no vote