Cardcaptor Sakura Mafia [Day Four]

Here. Backrea

Lucas leave I crushed your flowery face and I'll be glad to do it again. You killed your adopted sister. How could you

I'm not an amazing power role and I'm not going to be as useful due to just general lack of activity, so I'm actually going to just straight up infodump and go to bed. Starting from today, like I mentioned earlier in the thread, I'm basically tied up from 10am to 10pm PST all day every day for the foreseeable future, so I won't be around to defend myself if people do decide to vote me.

Can doubleconfirm this is a thing since Kiyoko told me this earlier this week, so I believe her. For reasons that are slightly on the meta side, I also believe her role claim, but I have no real hard evidence like me seeing Kiyoko redirect something.

Also given her comments on Raie, I'm very strongly convinced I know what Raie's role and possibly her card are, but I'm willing to not talk about this subject further because I'd rather not expose her role. She is town to me unless something comes up that makes me doubt her terribly.

I guess this is kind of warranted given the wording of Kiyoko's post, but Rasei is likely The Create. I already felt this way because Rasei did that same thing where she pointed out something that was tied to her but didn't claim being the thing (like she did in Lit Maf, where I was pretty certain she was the intermission writer even without ezz's recipes).

One thing I've been thinking about is the nature of Plot and chi's deaths, actually. I think a few people referenced that the item bomb or whatever killed Plot was actually very close to the end of phase, and it makes me wonder on why it was... so close to the end of phase, actually. Plot had claimed detective/alignment cop for most of the phase, and the mafia chose to kill her right before rollover instead of immediately after her claim.

It makes me wonder whether or not the mafia were hoping that she'd get mislynched and die (or maybe mafia has a vote altering ability hell no) and decided to kill her when it became absolutely certain that she wouldn't get mislynched and die, since at the time of her claim there was still a real danger of her being lynched and until a few no lynches were made closer to rollover, Plot was within 1 or 2 votes of being lynched for most of the phase, iirc.

Either that or the individual who uses the item is someone who is literally afk the entire day and then is around later, but I think everyone had posted with the exception of Adibros (?) after Plot had claimed alignment cop, and there's also the possibility mafia can send in actions for other mafia?

For this reason I actually have light suspicions on Five and Blaire, because other than Raie (who, barring things happening I'm going to assume is town, and if she wasn't targeted by town jailer, town jailer clearly hasn't rebutted unless they're an inactive), held votes on Plot after her alignment cop claim or voted on her after her alignment cop claim, and I feel like mafia probably staked out the phase or pushed votes in such a way to some degree with the intention of seeing whether or not they could force Plot out via lynch vs spawning a gun and using it on her? Since idk, if you have a gun you're going to use it on someone you know isn't going to get naturally lynched or is a major threat to you because you usually don't have 50 guns

Like, okay, some people know this but during the phase lulu and Aeiou were going to be lynched in Lit Maf, I was stalking that thing the entire phase and voted with the intent of seeing whether or not the jailer could be knocked out, so I wonder if the same thing happened here

[1:25:12 AM] Plot: The next hit children's book: All My Family Members Are Dead

Geez, if it's not one thing, it's another, huh? I took my vote off Plot after I read the thread and finally posted. It's not like I held it on her through a bunch of posts, and it's not like I changed as soon as it was obvious the bandwagon was changed to no lynch. This is silly.

Anyway, I have read the great big Tiki post and the fiasco surrounding it and it's still throwing alarm bells in my head. And his response to me in particular I don't quite know what to think of.

Tiki The Troll wrote:

Five wrote:After skimming it I think the post itself does look odd, and the rage involved seems a little uncharacteristic of him, from what little I've seen?

It is uncharacteristic, yes.

But I'd like to point out here and now that I'll never try to fake any emotions like that, something to make someone feel bad, or guilty, or whatnot. This game is stressful enough as it is without people trying to win via guilt and bad feelings.

Besides. We're all friends here. I'd prefer it stay that way.

I just needed to vent after a frustrating day of being helpless, heh...

I've not yet played a game in which Tiki was mafia, and his behavior IS consistently a bit odd as town. That said... what do people think about this? I'm still kind of suspicious of him. I guess if I had to pin down why I was in the first place, it's because he's usually pretty accepting of people finding him kinda scummy whereas this time he absolutely flipped out? And this response is weird because it doesn't actually seem like he was guilting anyone, just being bitter over the collective tone of a phase.

Someone probably wrote:But Fivey, you defended Tiki before! Why this all of a sudden! It's suspicious and you're obviously mafia!

Yes, because going after him for the timing of his post makes little sense, and at the time I had barely even skimmed the post itself. Leave me alone.

i will say i DO think you could theoretically chalk the 'flipping out' up to like, post-day-of-silence dramatics?

it seems almost like something I'd do, for comedic effect, is what I'm saying

obviously I have no idea if thats the case here tho


edit: fivey

Hrm. Yeah. unvote, vote: Five

My reasoning behind this vote is the following, please bear with me here. I don't really expect anyone to piggyback on this vote, but:

1) Assuming Lucas investigated Plot immediately on N0, which seems plausible given his comments on how he seemed so certain Plot was town (if it was a more ambiguous role that Plot had, it'd immediately become awkward if Plot was all "yea but my role can be either maf or town"), then that casts the early comments on Plot in a different light.

I think most, if not all of us know that Plot tends to be very busy in games, and it's possible that the initial motivation towards lynching Plot and others may have been driven by the underlying knowledge from the mafia side that she was alignment cop and also unlikely to be around enough to defend herself effectively and that by forcing a constructed lynch on her, the mafia could get her out without wasting an NK.

Five was one of the first players to push towards a lynch on Plot through dissection of the night kills, which seems like a valid strategy but at the same time, a lot of the discussion on Plot seemed to ignore the potential for me to be protected or be bulletproof and zero'd in on Plot having sent in the NK and being stunned by town stunner. I don't deny that I think whoever stunned Plot is town over mafia, but it just seemed Kind of Weird

Furthermore, despite the fact that I pointed out that it might be weird for maf!Lucas and maf!Plot to associate with each other in-thread (Lucas told me to press on him in Lux's minigame and separate myself from him, so I grilled him a lil' over the tic-tac-toe), some of the responses were along the lines of "well what if that's what the maf WANTS you to think/wifom wifom wifom".

Perhaps this is just difference of perspective, having been mafia with both Plot and Lucas recently so I guess I kind of know how they think, but it struck me as weird that people were immediately willing to gravitate towards:

> The NK sender was stunned.
> The NK sender was Plot.

when we don't even know for certain that the first of these points is true and will never know because the doctor should not claim their targets in-thread or claim at all unless they are literally about to be lynched with 10 minutes to go in the phase!  

Like, 12 minutes after rollover:

Alright, so! Ninfia has told me that the NK will in fact show up in rollover if the player who sends it is stunned or jailed! Naturally, there could be a protect or bulletproof at play here (Nautilus should be able to confirm if there's a bulletproof! What do you think, Nautilus?) but at this point I am very inclined to vote for one of the people who were unable to act last night. Of these, I am heavily leaning toward Plotstickers since rollover seems to indicate a town jail and a mafia jail, and if there's already a mafia jail I would think the stun came from town!

I can understand Raie's viewpoint on N0 and I don't think she's mafia atm, but this post seems... kind of eager to vote Plot when the host didn't even confirm in-thread what was going on yet (or respond to Lucas' questions)? I also feel like her response on me confirming the actions that happened last night seemed almost baiting in a way, because she specifically brought up bulletproofs and seemed to be wondering if I could confirm if I was a bulletproof and if one of my bulletproofs had been used up last night? This ties into ezz's/Aeiou's comment about the aforementioned probing question about "No one's claimed the vig kill etc.,"

And I'll reiterate so it doesn't fly under everyone's radar, plot looks the worst among them because I'll bet one of those jails came from mafia and one from town, and I don't think the mafia have a jailer and a stunner, so I think the stun came from town.

Further digging at Plot in particular and singling her out: "Plot looks the worst among them"? Like... I get suspecting Plot but the wording of this post seems like "man Plot looks terrible right now, pls remember this despite Lucas"

idk, it's just that the context of the initial plot push seems really weird to me now that Lucas has flipped maf and Plot has flipped town, and Lucas is making no effort not to look like an evil flower + if Lucas was miller he 100% would probably hint at it before he died/chinomi would've seen it

@Five's comments - No, it's no worries! The one thing that really struck me at the end of your post that... bothered me was the fact that you singled out my tunneling as really weird (and then another person posted that they were suspicious of me). In combination with Tiki's defensive vote & She-Ra's comments on how I was suspicious, it felt almost as if you were side-eying me for it which is extremely... awkward, given I was the N0 NK. In a previous game, one maf threw a strategy to discredit someone who had led a lynch on town in an attempt to prevent them from being a controlling figure in the town's plans, and I got the weird feeling here.

Furthermore, the fact that you appeared mostly to defend Tiki and then promptly disappeared threw me for a bit, and I guess this response seems really awkward because I am now voting you! I'm sorry. ;_;

edit: wow this is awkward

I just wanted it to be clear is all. That's even why I opened that post with a bit of a warning and preemptive apology. I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but I also REALLY had to get that out of my system. And I just happen to know that this forum is filled with awkward. shy, sensitive, but overall lovely souls.

Ninja'd by Nautie, who funny enough, demonstrates the sensitive part to a degree, and the awkward in full.
Not so much the shy, though. XD

@Five - idk, man. Vote-altering roles make things awkward and tricky, and Plot was 1-2 votes from lynch at least in the 4:46pm vote tally here:

https://crywolf.rpg-board.net/t203p195-cardcaptor-sakura-mafia-day-2#18504

I guess I'm just antsy, I guess. In the phase where all of you made a bad decision and voted out the housr in Lit Maf, I spent the entire phase (along with the mafia) with the intent of camping out to see whether or not the vote-differential would be slim enough for the mafia-lynch/vote altering powers to come in play. I don't think people knew this in that game and I'm unsure if Raie shared, but Plot eating posts could actually cancel the votes in the posts, and so we were waiting to see if the votes would shift enough that ezz could feed me and Plot could eat a vote, narrowing the gap effectively by two.

The fact that mafia camped out until like :56pm to spawn an item that killed Plot reminds me of that phase a lot.

I also agree with katagi re: Tiki's tone in that post, imo

Sorry, I really don't know how to respond to "What you did seems like a valid strategy, but I'm going to vote for you because I've been mafia with people you haven't before." Like, I really don't, but here goes. Now, with Plot gone being town and Cure claiming the town jail hit her (which is, as I've said, a badrisky move for a mafia player to make), it's pretty clear that it was a doctor of some sort. I did ask you if you knew why the kill failed (which you would, if you were bulletproof, and which I considered safe to ask because bulletproof abilities in my experience are almost always one-shot) with the intent of changing my vote if you claimed bulletproof. Anyway,

I can understand Raie's viewpoint on N0 and I don't think she's mafia atm, but this post seems... kind of eager to vote Plot when the host didn't even confirm in-thread what was going on yet (or respond to Lucas' questions)?

I don't know how the mechanics of stuns interacting with the NK usually work around here, so I asked the host in private. I said I did as such almost immediately afterward, too. I know it's not convincing and you can probably spin it to make me look even worse, but if I was mafia with Lucas we wouldn't both have to ask.

In any case I think the push to lynch Plot was sort of an inevitable direction for town to go in, regardless of whether or not I started it. Disregarding the interlude where we all jumped on the Lucas bandwagon, Kiyoko was pushing for it if I recall, and told Plot to claim. If your argument is that I'm more suspicious because I started it, I would in fact argue the opposite. Wouldn't it make more sense for mafia to wait for the push to be started rather than start it themselves, when it looks so obvious?

Now, lemme try to be productive for a minute. Since you would know better than me and I trust you and Cure more than anyone else in this game right now (unless I'm forgetting someone, which I might be, there's too many people here), what do you think of Tiki's behavior after the post-silence outburst?

edit, I guess: I also don't think it was weird to gravitate toward "the NK sender was stunned" when there were two stuns (well, one stun and a jail, which is effectively the same) coming from town compared to most likely one protect, and I don't think it was weird to go for the one stun it was actually safe to assume came from town, either. It just makes the most logical sense, doesn't it? It's not like anything could have been a sure thing, it's just a matter of playing the odds.

In the phase where all of you made a bad decision and voted out the housr in Lit Maf,

Excuse you, Aeiou and I did GREAT work getting you out of there that phase.

I never understand why people said that the nker was stunned. To me, a failed kill is because protection. Also I will end whomever phase end early because I was minutes to late in sending my action.

nautilus wrote:One thing I've been thinking about is the nature of Plot and chi's deaths, actually. I think a few people referenced that the item bomb or whatever killed Plot was actually very close to the end of phase, and it makes me wonder on why it was... so close to the end of phase, actually. Plot had claimed detective/alignment cop for most of the phase, and the mafia chose to kill her right before rollover instead of immediately after her claim.

I can answer this, actually.
It's because items are used /activated on rollover. They're created with an intermission, but can be used as a rollover action.
(So they didn't kill her right before rollover, actually. Her death is part of rollover, the intermission was only to put the item in play.)

eta: They didn't kill her earlier because they couldn't have.
And I'd imagine they put the item in play just before rollover to possibly hide that and make us think it was only part of rollover cause it was so close to it.

nautilus wrote:One thing I've been thinking about is the nature of Plot and chi's deaths, actually. I think a few people referenced that the item bomb or whatever killed Plot was actually very close to the end of phase, and it makes me wonder on why it was... so close to the end of phase, actually. Plot had claimed detective/alignment cop for most of the phase, and the mafia chose to kill her right before rollover instead of immediately after her claim.

It makes me wonder whether or not the mafia were hoping that she'd get mislynched and die

I haven't read the following posts, so keep that in mind, but while reading this my first thought was that it might've been done so late in the phase so that town had no time to react or think about it. It was a no lynch day, but if town saw an item go off they'd probably put more time into trying to figure out who did it, and also might have been more alert come rollover (I don't know if any town actually claimed posting rollovers and not having them go through, so we don't really know if it blocks everything but the NK, iirc?).

That said, it's still a good point re: trying to mislynch plot.

I see I have some more Mitsu and Five to chew through, with some ezz for dessert, so let me get to that.

@ezz - OHHHH. That explains a lot... In previous games where I've had vig kills really close to rollover, either the kill is incorporated into rollover if it's literally 0:01s before rollover (... man it's been so long and Kiyoko/Lucas were the only two people in this game to have played that game), or it's formed as an independent shot before rollover as its own intermission kill. Huh.

... The host won't confirm to me how items work sadly but I guess it's because I am not a player that can make items :(

I still think my point on the fact that Lucas likely investigated Plot's role and there might have been an initial mislynch attempt on Plot stands, though, but I just got back from things and I'm making lunch right now, so I'll reply more later.

hmm yeah ill admit that me voting plot probably looked a little scummy, but 1. man i hare no lynches so much ok 2. i think if i were mafia, i wouldnt have actually done that, since again, it looks pretty darn bad!! and if i had tram members, they def would have advised against it right?

also on a different note....with the appearance of that 'item', i thought it was linked to the Create card, but idk if thats something that was already said (and i missed it) or its just a dumb idea, idk

★ The Cure Vs AdiosBromigo
★ The Nautilus Vs Tiki the Troll Sammiya Five
★ The Kiyoko Vs no vote
★ The Tiki the Troll Vs nautilus

★ AdiosBromigo l
★ Five l
★ No Vote l

[2:25:23 PM] Host: takes you to weenie hut
[2:25:25 PM] Host: thats okay
[2:25:30 PM] Host: ur out of weenie hut jrs
[2:25:57 PM | Edited 2:26:04 PM] me: begins crying and opening up "how to speculate in mafia for babies"

also on a different note....with the appearance of that 'item', i thought it was linked to the Create card, but idk if thats something that was already said (and i missed it) or its just a dumb idea, idk

... I think The Create is most definitely Rasei just going from her behaviour and Kiyoko's comments on what Rasei's power is, and if that's the case then idk how Rasei could be connected to the item since the description of Rasei's ability doesn't sound like it could generate items at all, unless Rasei generates items for the people who successfully finish her trial or whatever (like how Ninfia's role in Lit Maf 2 gave a buff to whoever did it)?

I'm not 100% sold on my vote on Five, but other than that (and the Tiki thing) idk if there's anyone I feel particularly strongly against? I mean, I pointed out I feel weird about Angel/Sammiya but I'm not sure if I actually have any solid evidence against voting them, yolo.

I have a separate post to address Five in, Hosr just told me to make a vote tally for her